[MisterMower]

The activity in the body does not align with the title. Even putting aside whether such activities are justified in this case or acceptable in general, people do not commonly attempt murder or posses explosives at protests.

[alexgieg]

What the sentencing calls attempted murder, the defendants are describing as one of the protesters watching a police officer preparing to shoot another protester who was running away on their back, and thus shooting in the direction of the would-be cold blood murderer to prevent the assassination attempt. If this description is correct (a big if, but it seems the judge didn't care for examining the evidence), then it's something that wouldn't have happened at all weren't for actions of the officer himself.

As for explosives, the defendants say it was fireworks. Carrying fireworks at protests is common.

[MisterMower]

Yes, that was the defense’s argument, which was ultimately unpersuasive to a jury. Rehashing it here doesn’t make it more persuasive or effective.

I’ve been to several protests over the years and at exactly zero of them did I encounter fireworks of any kind. Maybe we run in different circles.

There is no non-criminal reason to use fireworks at a protest. Most cities ban their use altogether except for a few days a year around Independence Day and New Year’s Day.

[alexgieg]

I'm not American and don't know much about how protests are done in the US. From my perspective what you describe sounds extremely weird, in a cultural shock kind of way. I mean, how is it that, in the US, one can carry actual guns, including military-grade weapons, to protests, but carrying fireworks, whose core purpose is to make loud noise to force people to pay attention to the protest, is forbidden?

This sounds to me _exactly_ as weird as when I watch on TV those little gated "free speech zones" American cities have been implementing and, even worse, protesters obediently limiting their protest to within he gated area, "conveniently" placed several blocks away from where the protest would be effective.

Weird. Very, very weird.

[MisterMower]

I mean this in the kindest way possible: if you're not from the US and your only window into our country is TV and the internet, consider the possibility that your assumptions about how things are here might not match reality.

[alexgieg]

Then please correct me on the above.

Are gated free speech zones a thing, and do Americans obey that? If no, what are the news talking about when they show those? If yes, why do Americans submit to this?

And is carrying guns into protests allowed? If not, why aren't all gun carriers arrested on the spot? If yes, how does it make sense to allow them, but not fireworks, and how are fireworks more dangerous than loaded guns, and worthy of jailing, prosecution and imprisonment, while guns aren't?

[MisterMower]

I’m unsure what you mean by gated free speech zones. Sometimes specific areas are closed to vehicle traffic for a protest, but that doesn’t mean those locations are exclusively for protesting. In general protest is allowed wherever, provided it’s not on private property.

There is a guy in my town that protests a wealthy businessman on the public street corner near his house almost everyday with a bullhorn and wearable sign. The businessman has tried every trick in the book to get him to stop, but courts in our city and state have consistently ruled he has the right to do this on public property. He is homeless and a little looney, but still has constitutional rights that our courts protect.

In many US states, open carry of firearms is legal without a permit, again, barring private property owners posting signage stating it’s forbidden. I’ve been to protests at my state capital building and people open carry on the premises. Inside the statehouse it’s illegal. Brandishing a weapon is also illegal but generally keeping the firearm holstered prevents any issues.

Using fireworks inside most city limits is illegal, as is discharging a firearm. The difference is you can’t use fireworks for self defense, unlike a firearm, and discharging a firearm in self defense is legal.

There is a legitimate reason to have a firearm at a protest: to defend yourself. Fireworks, on the other hand do nothing but make gunshot like noises, which are very likely to get you shot in a protest here.

You have to assume people in a crowd are carrying firearms here. There are more guns than people in the US last I checked, and many states also allow conceal carry without a permit. Creating gunshot like noises in such situations is a great way to accidentally get shot.

In a nutshell, guns are a weapon that is legal to possess and use in self defense in most areas of the US. Fireworks cannot be used in self defense, but are great at making people think you just fired a gun. See the Kyle Rittenhouse trial for an example of how this plays out.

Most people not from the US have a hard time imagining people carrying handguns in a hip holster at the grocery store, but outside of LA and New York, it’s not that uncommon. And for every one person you see open carrying, there are likely five others conceal carrying.

A friend of mine is a mechanic and about once a month he sees a handgun tucked inside the door or between the seat and console of a car he’s working on. It is a cultural thing in a lot of areas, one that most people that haven’t traveled outside of major US cities have a hard time believing.

[Brian_K_White]

It wasn't them who attempted a murder, it was them who prevented it. Holy shit dude.