[xbar]

Exactly what everyone said when Patriot Act was passed and renewed repeatedly.

America permanently traded away basic freedoms for the bogus promise of safety in the shadow of fear. And the Supreme Court was too scared to stop it despite its obvious constitutional problems. Crying eagle photos in chain-emails were sufficient propaganda to keep it in place.

[rhubarbtree]

Yep, a lot of people saw this coming. It was so obvious - new powers are always abused in the end. Same for the UK. Perhaps the politicians knew that and didn’t care. Not sure how deep their cynicism / malice goes. More power to us, they said.

[rayiner]

It wasn’t just the GOTW. It was much of the 20th century from World War I onward. Each step led to further centralization of government, a larger and larger security apparatus, and more and more foreign entanglements. We are more or less retracing the path of Rome as the Republic expanded militarily until it was no longer practical to run it as a republic and it transitioned to empire.

[pyrale]

> It wasn’t just the GOTW. It was much of the 20th century from World War I onward.

If you're looking for the seeds of imperialism, you'll find them all the way back to US independence.

The point the article is making is that 2001 was a tipping point in that evolution.

[danans]

> We are more or less retracing the path of Rome as the Republic expanded militarily until it was no longer practical to run it as a republic and it transitioned to empire.

The current military "excursion" seems to be transitioning the US out of being an empire.

[rayiner]

Rome took some unexpected Ls against the barbarians too. Didn’t change the trajectory of the empire.

[shakna]

The failure to integrate the barbarian Goth refugees is generally marked as the beginning of the fall - and absolutely changed the trajectory of the empire.

[rayiner]

“Failure to integrate” is one way to describe the Goths sacking Rome. But I agree the barbarians did them in at the end. My point was that the Iran fiasco is more like the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, where Rome backed off after taking a beating. That didn’t mark a transition away from Empire, simply a retreat after a military loss.

[shakna]

And my point, is the current administration is closer to Caligula and Nero, than they are to Varus. You see this as nothing more than another blip in a long history. I see unstable and dangerous individuals getting standing ovations for failure.

"I don't care if they respect me so long as they fear me." - Caligula.

[marcus_holmes]

The "trajectory of the empire" is that it became the Roman Catholic Church. Rome still rules a sizable portion of the world's population.

I wonder if the USA is going the same way. Democratic Church of America?

[graemep]

Rules? Membership of an organisation is nothing like being a subject of an empire. Its purely voluntary. It has less power over its members than employers do. It cannot tax, only ask for donations. Its not even Rome - its run by people from all over the world. It controls only a tiny bit of territory.

[sally_glance]

Homelander approves.

[Terr_]

Either way, I'd just caution that the empire-ness of a country's military or diplomatic reach doesn't necessarily tell us what to expect in terms of its internal hellhole-ness of authoritarianism.

[rayiner]

The two things are related because maintenance of the empire imposes demands on the domestic political and economic structure. Look at the domestic politics during Vietnam and the GWOT.

[inigyou]

Do you mean GWOT? Global war on terror?

[gmadsen]

A Pax Romana would be a considerable upgrade

[rayiner]

No it wouldn’t. The empire sapped Rome and destroyed its democracy.

[nielsbot]

> And the Supreme Court was too scared to stop it

Too scared? They may have been on board...

[zwarag]

> Crying eagle photos in chain-emails

Can someone elaborate? Whwre is this reference comming from? A simple web search did not yield much

[sehugg]

You kinda had to be there. Before Facebook, people forwarded low-quality "viral" emails to all their contacts.

[vlian2088]

>Exactly what everyone said when Patriot Act was passed

I've been seeing plenty of Americans cheering on temporary safety over essential liberty since then, and I can't even provide examples without getting [flagged].

[Terr_]

> I can't even provide examples [of Americans cheering on temporary safety over essential liberty]

I've seen other people critiquing it over the years, perhaps it has something to do with other aspects of the delivery or message?

[inigyou]

Probably not. HN likes to flag inconvenient facts.