[Aeolun]

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around.

You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned homes.

[stevage]

It's strange what people think is expensive. Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it. Aircon is not expensive within the context of a house's construction costs.

[ajmurmann]

Double glazing safes heating and cooling cost though. A large part of the cultural difference and willingness to spend on AC comes from the fact that central Europe only in recent decades got so hot.

Of course thinking a cold is caused by being cold doesn't help either...

[basisword]

>> Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it.

This isn’t true. I’ve lived in 3 places in London with single glazing. They’re surprisingly common. All new properties come with it but the majority of our housing stock is old.

There’s also little comparison between air con and double glazing. One will be helpful for 4-6 months of the year and reduce my energy bills. The other will be necessary at most 1-2 weeks a year and will cost me thousands of pounds up front. Most people simply can’t afford that.

[jdkoeck]

Unless the aircon is a heat pump, in which case it’s also useful in the winter, it’s more efficient and carbon neutral if your electricity grid is decarbonised.

If most people can’t afford a heat pump, why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home, which doesn’t even work in the end?

You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all online.

[basisword]

I don't think you have any conception of how little money most people have. Why would I spend £15-20k I don't have on a heat pump so I can get 'free' air con when my house is already heated via another method? Most people don't have £500 spare for a portable air con unit.

On top of that, until a few months ago, government subsidies for heat pumps didn't apply to the versions that include air con so anyone who did get a heat pump didn't get that version.

>> why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home

We don't. There have been various schemes over the last couple of decades where people could have this done for free or at very low cost.

>> You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all online.

I suggest you do the same.

[jdkoeck]

Something needs to be done with the heat. The common euro talking point: aircon doesn’t solve the problem, let’s insulate instead (an order of magnitude more expensive). Apparently you entertain an even more absurd idea: let’s just do nothing, because everyone is too poor. That’s just wrong, plenty of home owners or real estate owners have the means to foot the bills, especially if regulation mandates or subsidises heat pumps.

Besides that, just know you’re participating in a system of belief that needlessly kills thousands each year (and many more to come, if you believe as I hope that climate change is real). Just dwell on it a little. Thousands dead because of ideological comfort and resistance to change, which in and of itself is a weird form of climate skepticism.

If you answer this, please address each of my points from both comments. You have adressed none so far.

[omnimus]

Let me introduce you to… cold related deaths. They are 8x more common in europe than heat deaths.

Since both of the cases happen mostly indoors we can assume it's both thanks to state of the buildings.

Not everyone can afford AC or insulation and cold used to be and still a bigger problem. Heating is absurdly expensive with leaky building so people prioritize insulating.

“Ideological comfort” lol stop it what the hell. Do you think people in europe wouldn't like to have AC if they could reasonably have it?

[TulliusCicero]

A basic window AC unit costs a few hundred bucks.

[Aeolun]

Not anywhere I’m aware of. Maybe the outer unit, then you need the inside, you need a licensed technician to install it, you need it to not look hideous and tank your house price. There is several thousand euros. You also need a larger unit because the rooms are too large to take one of the smaller units.

[HeyImAlex]

They're talking about window units, not heat pump systems or central air. It's a complete AC that sits in your window. It can't cool a very large space (even in apartments people may have more than one), but it's cheap and easy to install (and equally easy to remove). It might be unsightly on a house, but a lot of that is probably just cultural norms. They're very common in NYC, where a lot of housing was built before central air became the default.

[asdff]

I think you are thinking of mini splits, and not what americans would call a window unit. I got my window unit for $100 off craigslist and put it in myself without needing any tools.

[mc32]

You don't need to get central A/C or mini splits. You can use an efficient Window unit (not those single ducted portable units that are just barely better than nothing. if portable do dual ducted for efficiency) Those window units are available at Walmart in the US for a couple hundred apiece. Presumably hypermarts like Carrefour would carry them or some places that serve home improvement.

[Retr0id]

For some reason it's very hard to find window units for sale in the UK, single-duct portables are the only thing available for cheap (although it's a fairly easy mod to convert one to dual-duct).

[lrae]

Probably because the UK - similar to most of Europe - does not use the US vertically sliding sash window type, does it? The typical "walmart window AC" does just not really exist in (most of) Europe, because the windows for it don't exist, afaik.

Edit: Turns out, sash windows are more commonly found in the UK (compared to other European countries), but still not as common as in the US. So, UK = not as hot (so far), thus still probably not worth it (yet) as a market.

[asdff]

I have a skinny tall window unit. It is called a casement unit. Pretty small market though at least in the US, only a few makes and models in comparison to the plethora of traditionally sized window units.

[nemomarx]

Why are the windows different, actually? They don't seem to be smaller overall, just skinnier and taller?

But you should still be able to get two tubes fitted into any kind of window with the right seals. If you were really up for renovations you could get closeable exhaust holes punched through your brick or something maybe.

[lrae]

Sash windows are just not as common. Seems like they are in the UK somewhat, though numbers I found vary, but overall in Europe they're pretty uncommon.

And yes, there are options for tubes/ducts for the more common window types. Like tilt-and-turn windows, horizontally sliding or all the other kinds of inward or outward opening windows - but most of them are the ducted portable units the original comment was speaking of, which aren't great. There are also some better portable split units, but those are pricier and the install is not as easy. (They're great though.)

[mc32]

one issue with tilt and turn is getting window screens for them. It's possible but mostly they get installed on the inside if you have the proper wall spacing that allows window to function without interfering with the screen. mini splits are great but it's much more money than a simple window unit or portable unit.

[ajmurmann]

Living in the US I honestly miss the German windows that swing open. You can open the entire window whereas sliding windows can only ever open halfway.

I also sometimes miss being able to stick my head out the window but that's a tradeoff about screens and in the end of the day I prefer not to have to worry about bugs.

[asdff]

I have a swing out window in the US. Fun cranking the lever.

[antonvs]

> For some reason

The reason would most likely be low demand.

[rcvassallo83]

Efficient window unit?

Best of the best is about 15-16 SEER

That's entry level central HVAC efficiency

Minisplits are far higher, 20+

[mc32]

If I don't have $30K to $50K to invest in an HVAC for the home, the next best is a relatively efficient Window unit that costs low hundreds and will help me stay alive in the heat. However enticing the price of a single duct portable unit is, do not buy it. It's a complete waste. If you go portable, go with the dual ducted one --but it's still not as good as a Window unit (which I would hope is obviously less efficient than a properly specced HVAC unit.

[fc417fc802]

> It's a complete waste.

That's completely false. They work just fine despite not being terribly efficient at least provided you install them correctly (but that caveat naturally applies to any window unit).

In fact despite the low efficiency using only one in a single room is likely far cheaper than cooling the entire house. It's the same principle as an electric space heater versus a whole home heat pump.

Of course running a minisplit only in the one room would be substantially better but for a 1 kW unit the difference is less than $1 per day (unless you're subject to the California electric grid I guess).

[omnimus]

They work ok in some places where have insulated windows and some source of colder air to get in.

Since these one tube systems just push hot air out, you are creating low pressure in your room and you will suck the air in from somewhere. Often times simply from outside from the leaky windows.

I don't understand why it's hard to buy systems with two hoses that would keep the pressure in the room.

[fc417fc802]

Insulated windows? That would apply equally to any other system. Where care is required is sealing around whatever passes through the window.

As to the negative pressure, personally I just leave the door to the room cracked open very slightly. But if you have central heat ducts air will get sucked in through that no problem.

[dgacmu]

You can do a perfectly good, very efficient mini split for USD $5k. Avoids the leaks of window of portable units. And if you're feeling fancy you can get it as a cold climate heat pump. They're great options for retrofitting - can do multiple indoor air handlers, etc., for far less than $50k

[sneak]

I’m extremely happy with my single duct unit for cooling my bedroom in Berlin for the 3-6 weeks a year it is required.

[trollbridge]

I recently bought a window unit AC for $10 at a yard sale.

[d3Xt3r]

You don't even need an expensive AC. If you can't afford one, you can just get an evaporative cooler[1] for $100 or lesser[2]. Possibly even cheaper if you don't mind buying a second-hand unit.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

[2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler

[alamortsubite]

Those really only work in very dry climates. So some of Europe, but not places like the UK where the conference was cancelled.

[crote]

The main reason high heat causes issues in Europe is due to the high humidity, so you can't get rid of body heat as your sweat won't evaporate. It's why 35C in the shade might be perfectly fine in Nevada but absolute hell in the UK.

For exactly the same reason an evaporative cooler isn't going to work: there's no "space" in the air for the water to evaporate into.