[civet_java]

I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing for? There are massive companies that collectively profiting off of stolen IP and are now gatekeeping even their paid offerings - surely consumers will rail against this? Personally, I feel very bad and can't wait for Chinese models to continue improving as much as they can prior OpenAI's and Anthropic's IPOs.

[baq]

I’m not arguing for anything, actually. The ‘fair’ ship has sailed, even if the pirates somehow get shut down (which would be suicide by USG, won’t happen, national security issue), open Chinese models are not even hiding the fact that they distill from the frontier US labs, thus benefiting indirectly from the stolen content.

Note I don’t particularly like the ‘stolen’ word here as I don’t like when the music and film companies use it in the same context. Copyright infringement? Sure. Theft? No.

[infecto]

And the Chinese models rip IP just like everyone else before them. Your argument is moot.

This was a problem for 5+ years ago. Nobody cares or at least the majority voice does not care across the world. Cat is out of the bag and there is no way to put it back in.

EDIT: Worth noting that I have long held the belief that if you put data out on the public sidewalk that you should have low to no expectation that it’s IP. It’s how I think about Google Maps data for example. If they want to reap the benefits by not walking it off the a user login than they can feel the pain if folks use that information. Same applies for media that has been bought, Reddit comments or any other datasets.