[herdcall]

I'm surprised by the pushback by some people here; I wonder if they're actually learning French (or another language) themselves or just reacting generally against use of LLMs vs. humans here (a common trend on HN). I am learning French, and LLMs have proven to be very useful for me. Great to see the author go beyond current LLM voice exchanges by employing spaced repetition; thank you! I'll check it out.

[fossilwater]

I learned French, now living in France. I took a course to pretty much improve my accent and to not rely on translation when speaking. Our teacher never spoke English to us since day one, using images instead to relay messages.

What really helped me enforce what I learned is talking to real people online. There are plenty of groups in Discord where you can have conversations with people of different backgrounds and personalities, where you can capture vocabulary used by French speakers every day.

LLM is like Duolingo, you cannot rely on it alone. The OP cancelled their French course for this. You can use it but make sure to have different active and passive learning methods.

[prmoustache]

There is a point where you just need to start talking to actual people. Spending 6 months in a country that speak the targetted language works wonder for example once you know the basics.

Aren't there language exchange meeting groups in your area?

[dragontamer]

German learner here.

Most of the German discord group is mostly annoyed at how awful LLM explanations and hallucinations are.

Communication and teaching is something that teachers and tutors are far better at than LLMs. In fact, most seem to agree that the 30EUR or $40 textbooks with well organized listening/speaking tests are leagues better than any LLM subscription. And it probably will take you months+ of daily work to go up a language level. (a2 to B1 or B1 to B2), if not a year++ if you are more casual at learning...

At best, LLMs are a tool for browsing the free web for other resources.

As a teacher they have several flaws:

1. They understand your broken grammar and work with you -- bad. Real native speakers will struggle with bad grammar and pronunciation. You the human need to feel this constantly so that you know where to improve. Feeling the instinctive disgust from the other human is part of what helps us know what to practice.

2. They fail at coursework. A textbook puts you on the proper course, already graded to the level you are on and with exhaustive layouts of the subjects you are expected to know.

3. They understand your broken grammar and converse with you without a full ability to explain why it's wrong. Yes, this really is big enough to mention twice.

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I'd say LLMs are a reasonable tool for maybe finding additional grammar resources (ex: another source explaining N-declension, or other subjects you know you are struggling with). But as a general guide??

They don't know what you don't know. You still fall into the beginner trap of spinning in circles. If you already know what to search for, LLMs can accelerate the process but in my experience all the already available cheap textbooks are better sources of exercises and graded listening/reading material.

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IE: if you want to get A2 graded German reading and listening, get something like Hueber Lesehefte / Sicherheit ist nur wins Carsten Tsara blickt nicht durch for like 10 EUR (.mp3 read along and .PDF).

Or the myriad of other graded readers already available.

Your test is simple. Just read and understand the book. It's A2 after all, if you believe yourself to be at A2 level (or are aiming to achieve A2), then just read A2 stuff constantly.

It's just the usual LLM stuff. Beginners get wow'd by the chat bot interface but ignore all the issues with learning with LLMs. And beginners also find the well trod path of textbooks and study to be boring. But at the end of the day, the textbook is a simple and consistently useful tool, while LLMs arent.

[herdcall]

Oh, I'm not talking about using only LLMs, for sure. I am currently taking a college sequence (currently French 3), with textbooks, homework, and everything. 100% agreed on the value of traditional texts/flows. On the matter of LLMs being permissive with grammar, you need to use the tools specifically meant to check grammar. I use LanguageTool for everything I write to make sure my grammar is both correct and current.

LLMs are invaluable IMO for immediate feedback on your writing and speaking. I've started using French inputs for most regular interactions, even with things like Claude Code for my work and for all LLM interactions (I use Grok). Before I input into Claude Code, I check the grammar and content with LLMs. Tutors and traditional paths will not help with this.

The other sequence I'm starting to do is to have conversations as I take baby steps in speaking/listening. Agreed that talking to real French speakers is the best, but initially we tend to be shy because we're so bad, and using a non-human can put us at ease. You may be different, but IMO this is typical. And this post was about refining this via an app that adds spaced repetition, and I appreciate that.

[dragontamer]

Have you tried looking for a French Beginner Discord voice chat? Or a similar local club for an in person meeting in your area?

Tutors are not necessary. But this is a humanity / language arts problem. Communication with humans is literally the goal. Conversing with other similarly ranked beginners (with a moderator or teacher guiding the group) is among the best practice you can do.

Again, the point of public discussion with other humans is to find all the little mistakes and misunderstandings. The things that other humans find difficult with your pronunciation, rhythm or accent.

Tutors are simply the most expensive version of this available of live, one on one practice. It's a bad overall $$ value compared to class discussion or clubs but the human in the loop is perhaps the most important thing here for training yourself.

Again: it's the LLMs overly generous acceptance that I find problematic. When I talk in German at A2 level, other humans easily point out when I'm doing things in "English order" or other similar mistakes (which makes the sentence harder to understand in German).

But with an LLM, the LLM just understands broken German in English order or whenever I leave out a separatable verb or whatever. It autocorrects too much.