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by xelxebar 4 hours ago
The baseless log here is just a torsor [0]!

Lots of things are torsors: position, currency values, calendar dates etc. the vales themselves are arbitrary, and translating/scaling them by some value doesn't make a functional difference. Torsors let us talk about these things without needing to make such an arbitrary choice a priori.

In the case of baseless logs, the underlying set is "information units", i.e. log 2 is bits, log e is nats, log 10 is digits, etc. The conversion factors give us the torsor's group, and picking a privileged unit is just a trivialization of the torsor.

The vector division notation is, similarly, encoding a g-torsor in precisely the same way as length units are.

The examples so far are all torsors with abelian groups, but specifying position both requires choosing an origin and a length unit. The group of this torsor is a suitable semidirect product between translation and scaling, which gives a non-abelian group.

Most of the time we just implicitly choose a trivialization, which often causes confusion because it identifies objects with operations on them, e.g. conflating vectors as positions with vectors as translations. The author's treatise on problems with geometric algebra [1] even brings up this point!

[0]:https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/torsors.html

[1]:https://alexkritchevsky.com/2024/02/28/geometric-algebra.htm...

3 comments

Using the term "torsor" for that mathematical concept has been a very bad choice, both because the concept does not have any obvious relationship with the meaning of the word and because the word "torsor" had already been used for a very long time in classical mechanics for a very different concept, i.e. for the quantity that must be null for a rigid body to stay in equilibrium (i.e. the pair of a resultant force and a resultant torque).

Unfortunately, in mathematics there already is a long tradition of reusing common words to designate concepts that have no relationship whatsoever with the original meanings of those words. This obfuscates the content of many mathematical books or research papers, because even when they state trivial facts the statements are opaque for those unfamiliar with the specific jargon used in that niche branch of mathematics.

Yeah, see this thread --- I assume these guys haven't heard of the other meaning neither

https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2013/06/torsors_and_enr...

Consider in particular that use of ‘distance’

>I think you can look at adjoint profunctors from the unit category and show that they consist of giving a consistent ‘distance’ to every object, which in a torsor will be represented.

I do know about torsors actually but I didn't think to link it from there. I guess I don't find the term very useful; it feels like things are still hard to think about even after you know it's a torsor!---but also, I think I need to get more familiar with the concept, because the other commenter on here who described my basis-logarithm as a "GL(V)-torsor" really said it much more succinctly than what I was hacking out manually.

Regardless of the terminology, I thought it was interesting because I have never seen the logarithm thought about in that way.

Thanks for sharing, very interesting. I wonder how this maps to swe