[kleiba2]

Before the Iran war, I did a back of the envelope calculation for the price of gas of your average ICE for a certain fixed range vs. the price of electricity an average EV uses for the same range. This was under the assumption that you buy electricity at a random charging station that you don't have a contract with.

Based on these average values I used, EVs fared slightly worse.

This was not factoring in costs of purchase or repairs etc. And all averages were taken off the internet so everything had to be taken with more than a grain of salt. But the outcome was nowhere near your statement of EV energy costing about half of the cost of gas for the driver.

[kaydub]

I've only had an EV 3 months now, but it'll never see a charging station.

I pay around $.12/kw and get 4 miles per kw. So my "energy" costs are $.03/mile. I have a Mazda cx50 as well, it gets about 20-22mpg, with the gas prices here in Seattle that's around $.30/mile. Even where gas is cheaper that's still $.20/mile. Literally 10x the cost to run a gas car vs an EV.

I'm honestly shocked at how many people have EVs and rely on charging stations. I mean, I think it's a low number, but the fact that it's more than zero is shocking to me.

[redwall_hp]

More people own cars than houses. I live in an apartment, and the only ways I'd be able to charge an electric car are expensive charging stations or plugging in an extension cord, leaving a sliding door cracked all night and hoping the property's management doesn't throw a fit, pets don't sneak out, somebody doesn't break in, etc.

I've got a hybrid now, at least.

[sarchertech]

There’s plenty of cheap charging to be had in parking lots you’d otherwise park in. Many employers have charging stations. Plenty of apartments offer charging.

But even if you can’t find any of those, L2 charging at stations is half as expensive as fast charging.

[mercutio2]

The pacific northwest’s vast hydro capacity makes it maximally attractive to own an EV. The rest of the country isn’t nearly so lucky.

[robocat]

Is the hydro power already mostly consumed?

What actually matters is where extra generation occurs to handle the marginal new load of new electric vehicles.

Everyone fools themselves because they look at the current percentage of hydropower and think that is what powers their car - when it rarely is.

[kaydub]

I don't think most people care where their electricity comes from, just the price.

[sarchertech]

Neither Oregon nor Washington are in the top 10 states for cheapest residential power. Everywhere except for the Northeast and California has prices within a few cents per kWh of the Pacific Northwest.

[Danox]

One of the reasons Norway can go all electric (EV’s), but most of the world doesn’t have the hydroelectric resources they have.

[acdha]

Maybe it’s not as much cheaper but it’s cheaper than gas anywhere in the country.

[sitkack]

Seattle City Light owns a sizable chunk of its generating capacity.

[rayiner]

I’m at $0.11 in Maryland which gets 40% of its power from nuclear.

[tadfisher]

Doesn't make electricity much cheaper

[jwr]

I'm in the EU and the factor is 3-4x.

[crote]

> buy electricity at a random charging station

Well there's your problem. Try doing the same calculation with the average residential electricity cost. Most car use is for commutes after all, so most people can just charge their EV in their driveway every night.

Destination charging and rapid charging are notoriously expensive. It's a luxury product intended for a once-a-year road trip. It is not even remotely representative of your average charging cost. Street-side charging is slightly less excessive, but you're still paying a serious premium.

[pwg]

> so most people can just charge their EV in their driveway every night.

That does presume that those "most people" have a driveway where they can do charging. I.e., all apartment dwellers with cars in parking lots/garages (excluding those few that may have installed electrical plugs at each parking spot) are cut off, as are city dwellers without driveways who park on the street (or in another garage, again without electric hookups for charging).

Yes, eventually those garages and parking lots will likely include some form of "car charging" infrastructure, but until that happens, "most" is not as big of a percentage as that word makes it appear.

[tialaramex]

It's probably too much to say everybody can do this, but a lot more can than seem to be included in typical estimates. Tomorrow I will walk to work and probably (if the owner hasn't left by then) I'll pass an EV that's plugged in to presumably an ordinary mains supply... via a hole cut in their fence because their car is sat on the street. I'm sure that sometimes they find somebody else took their prime parking spot, but not often. And of course "run the cable through the hole in my fence and lay down the conduit to protect it" isn't exactly an ideal setup, but it works and the car doesn't care how the electricity got there.

[nextaccountic]

> until that happens

Maybe society can coordinate that? The CO2 being emitted isn't waiting

[samudrijan]

In the city you just take the bus or metro. Did that for 22 years, no issues.

[lostlogin]

Doing the equation regularly would be interesting.

There are some other parameters to consider too. Stopping for fuel is not something I enjoyed. I can charge at home. You won’t have to stop to refuel in an EV unless you’re going a long way. If you’re going a long way the stop will be longer. Much worse.

You won’t service an EV much, that’s nice.

The silence is bliss.

[jeffbee]

In my area the fuel cost of a hybrid car is a better deal than recharging an EV at PG&E retail rates, but this is just a policy knob that we can turn whenever we decide to get serious about reducing greenhouse gas emissions. If people are ambivalent about the operating costs of EVs then it is up to the government to put their thumb on the scale with a motor fuel tax, such that EVs look like a great bargain.

[Fwirt]

We just bought our first (used) EV, and charging stations are the Wild West right now. Any random station you pull up to might charge close to the local cost of electricity, or some wild sky-high amount. And hopefully they’ll tell you what that is before you have to swipe your card. There the economics can swing towards gas cars depending on how absurd your local charging station prices are. For people filling their tank every couple days because of a 2 hour commute or something an EV may still not make sense financially. But if you’re putting in under 40 miles and have even a modest 120v 12 amp circuit you can plug into at home (e.g. a dedicated washing machine circuit) you’ll likely only need a charging station on rare occasions such as a road trip. As a matter of fact I am writing this from our first EV road trip. The inconvenience has been comparatively minor and our “fuel” costs should end up being about half of what they would have been in our hybrid SUV.

[Danox]

The Toyota Prius and the Rav hybrids are popular for many of the reasons you mentioned.

[sarchertech]

Were you using DC fast charging stations or level 2? Fast charging is about 2x the price.

[tialaramex]

If you think about it as "buying fuel" rather than as just a routine part of owning the vehicle I think the "fast charging" seems like how you'd do it. Like how at the turn of the century people bought a mobile telephone to make telephone calls. What do mean it's a computer? Why would you want a handheld computer?

Humans are like this about a lot of things, imagine what it was like before widespread universal literacy. Why are we teaching everybody to read? What are they going to do with that skill? Until you've tried it, the fact that your entire populace can read doesn't seem like it would make a big difference.

[bruce511]

Yes, this. I notice most people unhappy with the EV concept are also not EV owners. Which makes sense, they've chosen not to get one.

And yes, there are also EV owners who are unhappy, but they are much less common. In general, when I talk to EV owners they would not go back to ICE.

Yes, I hear the objections. But I also see communities overcoming those problems. I was in London a couple weeks ago, and I saw multiple EV's parked on the street being charged from the nearest lamppost. This in areas with little to no off-street parking.

I noticed in parking garages more and more charging points. And so on.

Yes, I imagine price does vary. But if the landlord in my office block puts in electric chargers then I expect we'd negotiate the price with him. He wants to keep tenants happy. We want to keep staff happy. I imagine cost of the actual electricity to the employee would be barely above municipal cost rate (if not below it.)

When it comes to charging availability, it's a problem that's pretty easy to solve. The difference in the last 5 years is remarkable. And it will continue to expand as demand picks up. And it can be solved by individuals with individual capital. So it can happen almost overnight.