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by ribosometronome 2 days ago
Moving to have 401ks investing in it when 5% of the stock is publicly available versus 30-40%+ that would have been available on the previous timelines seems like it could have pretty dramatic effects on its price.
1 comments

The relevant indices (S&P500, Vanguard) buy in proportion to available float -- i.e., its market cap is weighted by 5%. Only Nasdaq 100 ignores float, stupidly, but almost no money, especially 401(k) money, is in that.
This may be true (I'm sure it is, but I haven't verified) but the large majority of people do not know this, which is why hearing "my retirement account is going to be forced to by a bunch of spacex at a $2.5T valuation" makes them.... uneasy.
Musk tried mightily to get S&P to change their 12 month rule to 15 days but they refused. Nasdaq, however, caved to Musk and agreed to change the rules of its Index - from a 12 months wait to 15 days - in exchange for Musk agreeing to list SpaceX on Nasdaq's exchange.

There are ETFs that were issued tied to the Nasdaq 100 which are therefore legally bound to buy SpaceX. But the biggest immorality is the SEC allowing Musk's attempt to manipulate the market by: 1. Setting an IPO price for SpaceX (which absorbed xAi and its money guzzling losses) at unsustainable, incredibly inflated prices; and then 2. Putting incredible pressure on SP500 and other index makers to change their rules to force the purchase of SpaceX at those sky high prices (in an IPO, company gets to set the IPO price).

It's legal. At least in the eyes of the SEC which, of course, is an institution that is controlled by the wealthiest who control the markets, so of course it's legal.

But it is outrageous market manipulation that is fraudulent in its intent to enrich the wealthiest man on earth at the expense of ever wage earner putting her money into Index Funds.

Thank goodness the S&P and CRSP refused to change their rules. Otherwise the shifting of risk from Musk onto the shoulders of every working American would have been complete.

I don't understand your comment. The SEC doesn't control IPO prices. No one was forced to buy $SPCX at the IPO price.
If Musk's pressure had succeeded and the S&P and CRSP had changed their index rules, then the major indexes would have been legally obligated to buy SpaceX at the IPO price - or presumably higher because their own mass purchases would have driven the price even higher.

That was Musk's plan. It failed because he couldn't get the major indexes to cow tail to his pressure and demands.

Edit: My reference to the SEC is that they are charged with investigating market manipulation. And Musk was involved in the biggest attempt at market manipulation probably in history - trying to pressure private indexes used by almost every ETF in the world (S&P and CRSP) to change their rules which would have legally obligated those ETFs to purchase SpaceX within 15 days.

However, the SEC cannot investigate it because no laws would be violated despite the fact it would have been an incredible market manipulation.

In fact, the change in rules by Nasdaq 100 is a huge market manipulation that has taken place exactly as I describe - it's simply not as catastrophically large as it would have been had all the major indexes succumbed to Musk's demands.

> cow tail to his pressure and demands.

The idea you wanted is "kowtow" not "cow tail". The "kowtow" is a Chinese gesture of submission to power, in practice it might be a large formal gesture like European bowing, but it can be something much more subtle, like the knuckle tap in the tea ceremony, the observer knows what is signified. The submission to power rather than a particular gesture is what's retained in English.

"Cow tail" does exist as an actual idea in baseball, as a particular type of long swing which is said to resemble how cows twitch their tails but here that doesn't make sense.

You seem to be confused about how index funds work. Hypothetically even if $SPCX was added to the S&P500, funds that track that index wouldn't be legally required to purchase it at the IPO price. Have you ever even read a fund prospectus or do you believe the uninformed nonsense you read online? The way it actually works is that when a stock is added to an index the index funds gradually build a position using a series of trades over time.
Mutual funds and ETFs set forth a prospectus that is a legal document binding them by law to comply with how they operate. While an etf is free to create its own index, that is not the way the market works. Vanguard, Fidelity, iShares, BlackRock and the other major players, state in their prospectus what index the ETF will follow - such as the CRSP US Total Market Index to use one example from Vanguard's VTI etf.

That means Vanguard VTI tracks the stocks that are contained in the CRSP US Total Market Index. So, if CRSP adds a new holding to its US Total Market Index, Vanguard VTI is legally bound by its prospectus to add that stock to VTI and to do so in a manner that assures VTI returns track the CRSP US Total Market Index returns as closely as possible (meaning they own every stock CRSP does and in the same proportion that CRSP does).

This is not just a 'good idea'. It is legally binding upon Vanguard by virtue of the VTI prospectus.

> CRSP had changed their index rules

CRSP did change their rule earlier in Feb, where they added a clause that later allowed SPCX to be included, despite having <10% float.

Source: https://www.crsp.org/crsp-market-indexes-changes-to-float-sh...

Oh there are ETFs that track Nasdaq 100.
There are ETFs that track pretty much everything you can imagine. How much retirement money is in those?
I believe I already addressed this in my earlier remarks ("almost no money, especially 401(k) money, is in [Nasdaq 100 tracking funds]").