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by cbdumas 2 days ago
If governments want to set up online age gates, they should be responsible for providing an electronic ID system and enable privacy preserving age verification (zero knowledge proofs)
5 comments

Who is "government" Is it not the people? The people don't want this crap. It's a few zealots with their motives that are pushing this down society.
The people do want this crap. If you have kids of a certain age, you know kids that have had near misses with grooming on Roblox, or have seen the comments from men on child Tiktok accounts. It's a stupid amount of exposure that we just didn't have to deal with as kids.

People just don't understand the problems implementing AVS.

I'd be much much happier submitting details or a face scan to a .gov.uk service than all these rando verification services.

Then do your parenting and stop limiting the rights of the rest.
Tell me you don't have teenagers without telling me you don't have teenagers. I'd love kids to do what they're told. That would absolutely solve this but as we all know, they don't.

But how are your rights limited?

Who's buying your kids internet access? Are they getting it on a street corner from a stranger? lol I doubt it.
They could, yes. You can buy 5GB of service for £2.50 at many convenience stores. Paid cash.

This is such a weird angle. Like saying shops shouldn't age check for alcohol because the parents would know.

They are also friends with other children who have their own parents, devices and network access. Your child doesn't live in a bubble you have control over.

These are all the same fantasy arguments that completely ignore the pervasiveness of the internet and the tenacity of determined children. 15 years of waiting to see if social networks can fix this themselves has only shown us how much they want to exploit us all. They earned this.

"crack dealers are trying to sell crack to my kids at street corners, can we ban that?" "No! Just do your parenting!"
> if I replace ‘internet access’ with ‘crack,’ then that sure changes the argument!

Damn dude really makes you think

Just parent your kids.
Most people want social media banned for under 16s. Some people realized they can use this as an excuse to ram through id checks
Your (the people’s) preferences are largely irrelevant here.

https://willbrownsberger.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Gile...

I want it. As someone who’s trying to keep their kids off screens and social media it’s easier to win the battle when it’s illegal. If I have to provide ID I’ll probably stop using it to and that’s good. Shit is garbage. Hopefully this becomes a global thing and we might get classic internet back, when it was actually good, before social media…
The kids will just use illegal plattforms instead, which will not even try to stay above board or protect children.
You do know that you will need to provide your ID for every single website in the future?
No, no, that's not how it works. They will do remaster of old internet. LOL. People are really dumb.
Zero knowledge proofs don't accomplish the ID checking that the governments want.

The reason all of these improvised ID check systems require you to do things like submit a video of you moving your face around (which has its own problems) is because they want to get closer to proving that the ID you submit is actually the ID of the person holding the phone, not just some ID (or zero knowledge proof) you copied from the internet.

But the party verifying that the person matches the id doesn’t need to know what the claim is for
That is what I have been saying: we need ZKP! I highly doubt they will implement it though.
Implementation detail. Fine companies that allow minors access and they'll find a way to verify age by themselves.

For liquor for example I don't think the govt actually specifies that you shall check ID they specify that you shall not sell to minors.

> they'll find a way to verify age by themselves.

Yeah, by outsourcing it to some shady company that sells all your private info to the lowest bidder. See Discord for example.

Don't use the site then? Or sites can compete on which age verifies in the least shitty way?

I think we have been stuck in this way of life so long we can't imagine an alternative.

Classic. So tell me how I can just not deal with the credit bureaus? Or tax filing companies? Or any site that sells my data to adtech, without totally secluding myself from the modern web? Where’s the supposed competition?

What you’re saying is functionally equivalent to “just deal with it,” since ultimately people will choose to have their privacy violated over the lifelong Sisyphean task of trying to avoid all of that. That doesn’t mean people don’t care about privacy, it’s just the current equilibrium in our broken system.

> I think we have been stuck in this way of life so long we can't imagine an alternative.

I agree.

> the credit bureaus? >> Do NOT buy on credit. Close your CCs. Use Debit cards, Wise/Revolut or BC wallet. > Or tax filing companies? >> Do self assessment? Go and see actual CPA personally?
It's coming to European Union citizens. Any day now.