Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by patrickmcnamara 2 days ago
I don't know why everyone is being so dismissive. Pensions in Europe nowadays are just transfers from young and poor to older and wealthier. The average French pensioner (not working) has a higher income than the average French worker (working).
1 comments
jraph 2 days ago
> The average French pensioner (not working) has a higher income than the average French worker (working).

That doesn't seem true. End of 2023 the mean retired net income in France seems to be 1 541 € [1] while the mean net salary of a worker is between 1 940 € and 4 630 € depending on whether the person works in the public sector and depending on the class.

> I don't know why everyone is being so dismissive

Because that's mostly unsubstantiated random feeling that has implications that look quite bad. What do you want, when you stress that retired people earn too much (which seems mostly wrong, as we just saw), blaming this as major¹ cause of a European decline? Do you wish we would just stop providing income to the retired people?

¹ because if it's not a major cause, why even mention it?

[1] https://drees.solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/publications-communi...

[2] https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/7457170

link
patrickmcnamara 2 days ago
https://www.ft.com/content/d419bd2d-a6ba-44a5-a93a-1276f3e5d...

This is the article I was thinking of. I don't think we can pretend that pensions are not a problem, and not a massive strain on government budgets. Incomes of pensioners have increased a lot more than incomes of working-age people, and French over 65 earn more than French working-age (slightly different claim than I made).

> What do you want, when you stress that retired people earn too much

I want to pay less into unsustainable pension system and to be able to save for my own future instead. I would love more of Europe to get a system similar to Australia's superannuation system.

link
jraph 2 days ago
> I don't think we can pretend that pensions are not a problem, and not a massive strain on government budgets

Indeed we can't. Now, you have to prove that the alternatives wouldn't be worse. And you have to prove that they are unsustainable as is.

> I want to [...] be able to save for my own future instead.

No thanks. But I suspect our disagreement here comes from having very different perspectives.

link