[donavanm]

> maybe the Israelis managed to sell a story

This was already reported a month or so back. It also matched some of the early, unprepared, statements along the lines of “acting before they (israel) do.” And matches previous reporting along the lines of JCS/NSC giving “nuanced” advice which is easily interpreted as agreement or compliance.

[roenxi]

Yeah, that reporting looks sketchy. A lot of the details are being leaked from inside the Trump administration and it is to their benefit to play up the idea that the US administration doesn't have any actual control over their own disastrous actions. Turns out their hands were forced and they've just been bamboozled by foreigners and they never wanted to do the thing they just enthusiastically did. Colour us all shocked.

It might be the case, reality is in favour of the Trump admin from time to time. But it could also be untrue. What type of crazy is "acting before they (israel) do" - the idea is wildly stupid, even stupider than starting the war in the first place. Literally all they achieved was the tactical "victory" of taking out everyone who could conceivably negotiate to end the fighting. No way a bunch of people on the US side didn't notice that.

[donavanm]

I dont think those points are in conflict? I certainly read it as yet another example of centralization of power and advisors/advisees who are only interested in “yes.” I read the NSC/JSC/cabinet advise as the passive failure of directly answering what is asked, and not what is meant or needed. To wit, yes the US DoD can absolutely suppress an opfor and infrastructure. No one asked if there was a strategic outcome, and no opinion on that matter is proffered.

Edit: I know recall JCS is reported to have said something like “its bullshit” about the Israeli operational plan/end state. But subsequent discussion focused instead on “can we”, not “how” or “should.”

And the current civilian administration is doing a pretty thorough job of eliminating anyone who _would_ point out previous lessons learned around strategic outcomes, going in to conflict necessitating clear & achievable exit criteria, creeping escalation, conflating use of force with success, etc.

Theres a reason everyone talked about “adults in the room” last time and anyone inclined to those kind of thoughts, or voicing the associated opinions, is absent now. And personally Id say that amplifies culpability, nit diminishes it.