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by rr808 2 days ago
A lot of the price difference between Europe and USA now are wages. US wages for construction workers in NYC or SF are 2 or 3 times that of Madrid. Lots of things are cheap just for this reason alone.
6 comments

What came first, the wage or the cost of housing?
Even states like Mississippi and Iowa have low housing costs and wages much higher than Spain.
If you want to do a real comparison then you have to include the cost of healthcare.
Yes, but that cuts in the other direction. In the U.S., skilled work like subway construction will provide employer-paid healthcare. U.S. employers pay $1.3 trillion a year in healthcare benefits. You have to account for that on top of the reported wages. So that makes U.S. workers even more expensive relative to workers in Europe, where healthcare will be paid from taxes on the wages paid to employees.

Total compensation in the U.S. construction industry is about $46/hour on average: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ecec.pdf. That's almost $92,000 for a 2,000-hour year.

people making this argument always forget the most critical aspect - people generally need healthcare when they are not working, almost always when retired.

Your argument is then essentially that people should be working indefinitely.

We’re talking about how labor costs impact subway construction costs. Retirees aren’t relevant to that. (And the U.S. has universal healthcare for them anyway.)
Yes that is another reason, high healthcare costs for employing workers means higher construction costs in the USA.
In Madrid where the average monthly pretax salary is below 1500 a shared room with four strangers costs 400-709 a month and small aprtments in bad neighborhoods cost 3000-4000 a square meter to buy.
Average monthly pretax salary in Madrid: 2 575.46 EUR (source in es_ES: https://www.abc.es/espana/madrid/evolucionado-salario-medio-...)

Also, a shared apartment costs as much as you say. Not a room (source: idealista.es).

Purchase prices are high, but I'm curious as to what you consider a bad neighborhood, given the overall safety statistics in Spain, and Madrid in particular.

Housing affordability is a real problem, but misrepresenting data is counterproductive, as it can be easily disproven.

No one lives in rooms. Everyone in Madrid lives in apartment.

The average salary refers to those who have a job. Most family units have some that don't.

The US project prices are not just 3X the EU project prices. It’s just that the construction companies & consultancies overcharge. In the US the overhead is insane. From construction, to universities, to hospitals. Insane overheads everywhere.
Not only are the wages higher, the unions insist on hiring 3x the number of necessary staff (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...)
This is an interesting one. I live in NYC and have spent lots of time in Spain - the cost of living differential is easily within the 2-3x range, maybe more if you're talking housing specifically.

I can't confidently say whether one feels more comfortable working construction in a globally VHCOL city like NYC or SF or in a MCOL city like Madrid.

It's the amount of middlemen adding their cut to everything, don't blame it on the workers.
The price difference isn't 2 or 3 times though. We're talking about x10 easily.