[teravor]

do you have evidence that if they wanted to do that they would not be giving orders to European or American engineers? as I said, financial fictions don't matter in matters such as these.

if you have evidence that they have Chinese nationals working as engineers without oversight, you should submit it to the government.

[wat10000]

“Give us the signing keys to the software update servers.” “No.”

You really think that’s how that conversation would go?

[teravor]

no. first you need to design the pathway by which control of the computers will allow overriding control over all the relevant control surfaces, something Tesla for example doesn't do. for that you need engineers collaborating all along.

[wat10000]

I don't understand what you mean. I assumed the scenario was the manufacturer bricking the car, starting it on fire, or making it crash. Bricking is pretty obviously trivial. Starting it on fire would require changes to the battery, motor, or charger firmware, no big deal. Making it crash requires control over steering, motor, and brakes, which any car with modern driver assist features already has. What part of this would a Tesla, or any other car, not be able to do?

[teravor]

    > What part of this would a Tesla, or any other car, not be able to do?

Tesla computers are not capable of maintaining steering control when the user is physically moving the steering wheel. does BYD have similar restrictions? can you trust them?

this discussion has reached the limit of its usefulness. if you aren't able to see why having nationals in an adversary nation be in control of dangerous hardware on your soil is a big problem, nothing will aid you in understanding this.

[wat10000]

That's not the point of disagreement. I completely see why that's a big problem. Where we disagree is the notion that Volvo isn't controlled by an adversary nation or doesn't have dangerous hardware.

If you've managed to come away from this discussion with the impression that I think it's no big deal to have adversaries in control of dangerous hardware on your soil, then I do have to agree that this discussion has reached the limit of its usefulness, because I said nothing of the kind.