[glerk]

So this is the other side of banning American models for non-Americans? And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America?

This is a complete joke. The malicious clowns behind this should be removed from power and prevented from ever holding any position of power in any form of governance system.

[matheusmoreira]

They're probably going to ban GPU exports to China. Which will of course accelerate the development of their own GPUs. More products for us.

[azinman2]

China is already going as hard as they can on their own GPUs. When has availability of non-Chinese tech in China meant China didn't ultimately come up with homegrown replacements?

[matheusmoreira]

It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs.

As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.

[_carbyau_]

> makes me wish my country was like China

I admire their governance ability to have long term plans.

The sheer scale of their production ambitions in so many fields and their energy build out is insane.

The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.

[r14c]

> The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring

Our oligarchs do that too and all we get in return is declining infrastructure and paranoia.

[deaux]

Classic case of getting downvoted solely because it's a negative comparison to China. The letter for letter exact same comment in a thread only about the US on here, that doesn't mention China, would get upvoted.

You are, of course, right. All of the downsides with none of the benefits.

[vintermann]

Well, it's not as if there's not an elite enriching and entrenching themselves here either.

Reading about Thiel's "Dialog" meeting, I wonder, do China have their own equivalent of such blatant corruption meetings?

Even if they do, do they discuss "compliance collars" for the security guards in those meetings? I have a feeling they don't.

The future the Chinese elite wants to own, at least seems to include us as something other than a zombie army at the gates of their post apocalyptic bunkers. That's a low bar I know, and not much to be hopeful about, but our elites aren't even meeting it.

[joe_mamba]

>The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.

In which major democratic western country don't the elites get wealthier? In fact, the top 10% asset owners saw the biggest post-covid recovery, which the rest stagnated or are in decline. Not defending China but are own oligarchs are just as savvy at enriching themselves while screwing us over.

[eru]

> It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.

PR China is still pretty poor (around 31k$ gdp per capita adjusted for purchasing power) and its growth has lost a bit of steam recently.

You should wish your country to be more like Taiwan or South Korea. Or Singapore.

[nixon_why69]

I think the PPP calculations may suffer from the same problem as the USA inflation rate being nominally low. Housing, food and medicine are all ludicrously cheap outside of tier 1 cities.

[matheusmoreira]

> 31k$ gdp per capita

My country is currently at about a third of that.

[greenavocado]

> You should wish your country to be more like Taiwan or South Korea. Or Singapore.

Total fertility rate for all of those countries is close to 1.0, including China's. They are dying societies.

[eru]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fer... suggests Chad and Somalia and DR Congo are the most vibrant societies by that metric.

You might want to compare Singapore with a city like NYC or London, not with a territorial state. It's pretty normal around the world for cities to be replenished mainly by people moving in.

(Of course, to be fair you then also need to compare GDP per capita against other cities. And they usually do a lot better than territorial countries that include a lot of hinterland.)

[HerbManic]

Not only x86 chips, they are going in fairly hard on Risc V and Loongarch (MIPS/Risc V inspired ISA). Risc V is still growing trying to catch up to ARM, while Loongarch LA664/LA864 chips are much closer to x86 performance than other options. They still are many years behind but not as far as you would expect.

GPU's are still a fair way behind with Moore Threads S80 being a better example of their high end. I suspect they have some major driver issues because they current benchmark far below what that silicon should be able to do. https://en.mthreads.com/product/S80

There is also the pressure to have them innovate on older process nodes so they can make this stuff domestically. For instance Huawei is doing what they call 'logic folding' which is basically just stacking dies in a way that ends up reducing the overall size of chip features. Not sure how it addresses thermals but it is a cool idea.

Sorry this article is a bit of LLM rubbish but you get the point - https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/huawei-logic-folding-moores-la...

China is hungry and that is driving them to take these moon shots, they may just make it.

[paulryanrogers]

You probably wouldn't feel the same if you were born into a minority population like the Uyghurs. Or even to many of the poor underclass.

Sadly it appears the current US administration is also determined to undo any progress by minorities over the centuries.

[fc417fc802]

They greatly increased efforts when the US restricted high end exports to them. Unless further restrictions accomplish something worthwhile in the short term they seem unlikely to be of benefit to the US.

[kordlessagain]

I saw they have the ASML-type lasers working but are a ways out on getting it to print.

[khalic]

we said the same thing about their home grown GPU datacenter, and look at them now, with multiple facilities 10 years sooner then we thought possible.

[mtoner23]

trump just undid the gpu export to china to help jensen make money

[embedding-shape]

Oh, that's great, finally they put that cat back in the bag, surely it can never escape.

Gonna be interesting to see how the ecosystem looks like 2-3 years, I'd be expecting some drastic changes compared to today.

[frm88]

3 days ago the deal was still on https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trumps-china-nvidi...

[karunamurti]

China already produced their first graphic card that got Microsoft WHQL certification.

Is it competitive enough? Probably no. Is there a software ecosystem for Chinese hardware yet? Probably no. But you know it will come soon.

[usernomdeguerre]

> And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America?

That's what Cloudflare will be for.

[azinman2]

You're aware that many countries are blacklisted from trade with the US already, along with certain segments of existing companies. It just means that enforcement comes with contracts, law, banking systems, etc.

[ibejoeb]

> how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this?

Video selfies and government document upload on hardware attested phones, of course.

[0xpgm]

It's likely the elected officials know nothing about AI the technology.

Depends on who has their ears in terms creating policies around technology.

[incompatible]

Banning American models for non-Americans seems like a big reduction of the potential customers for American chatbot companies.

[tychez]

The same way you can't just open a bank account anonymously. It seems inevitable to me that this is going to end up with a KYC/AML style digital online ID.

Without that you are not using Claude 10. It would not be shocking at all at some level of capability that running open source models anonymously is made a crime.

To pretend there is not huge issues with a laissez faire attitude as these models progress I think is intellectually dishonest and performative.

[worik]

Until they scantion Brazil

It can happen to anyone