[torginus]

How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy lets say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller? Its not even circumventing the rules, its the natural thing to do.

For that matter, does (only) NVIDIA make datacenter cards? When I buy a gaming card, I dont buy from NVIDIA, I buy from an integrator, like Gigabyte, who work with a company like Foxconn to make the cards.

[janalsncm]

The export restrictions only apply to certain GPU models, which are the more recent powerful ones used for training tasks. So the H100, B100 etc. are banned along with 4090, 5090.

Nvidia has downgraded chips that aren’t banned. H100 is banned, H800 is allowed. A100 is banned, A800 is allowed. But the sale has a tariff attached.

That’s all how it’s supposed to work. In practice companies probably circumvent the restrictions.

[skissane]

> That’s all how it’s supposed to work. In practice companies probably circumvent the restrictions.

Ex-colleague of mine told me he used to work for this company in UAE (he told me this story 15+ years ago, so he worked there even before that). He said it took him months of working there before he discovered that their entire business was evading US sanctions against Iran-they’d order servers/etc from the US, tell the US vendor they were for use locally in UAE, then ship them straight across the Gulf. The UAE government presumably knew this was happening but chose to turn a blind eye; the US government likely did too, but struggled to tell which orders/purchasers were legitimate and which were sanctions-evaders, plus likely was worried about enforcement action causing issues in the US-UAE diplomatic relationship.

I’m sure there are similar businesses out there who specialise in evading US sanctions on China.

[skeptic_ai]

Can I tell you I can go downstairs now and buy a 5090 (not d or d2 version, the real 5090) in China for 4000usd (33000rmb)? They have it stock right now, they have since release. It’s a Japan version.

I didn’t ask about h100 or others but can’t see why they wouldn’t have.

[janalsncm]

I believe it. I don’t think the restrictions are effective.

That said, I think the goal is more to make it harder to buy thousands of GPUs and stand up a cluster like big US labs do.

[jacobgkau]

The GamersNexus documentary (https://youtu.be/1H3xQaf7BFI) on the semi-underground GPU trade in China, while a little amateurish in terms of depth and general atmosphere, is an interesting watch and may answer some of your questions.

Basically, those export controls make GPUs more expensive for affected parties in China, but don't effectively stop them from being acquired or used over there.

[re-thc]

> How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy let's say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller?

In theory, the whole chain has to comply. And if you don't you get fined etc. So the local reseller would risk not be able to resell.

[skeptic_ai]

Have you been in shenzhen? You can just buy in many stores a real 5090 imported from Japan