Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by danielmarkbruce 3 days ago
global gdp is over 100 trillion. Something like 50-60% is paid to labor. If you assume AI takes a good chunk of labor, the market is gigantic. Really really really gigantic.
4 comments

AI bots don’t buy consumer goods and other services.

If people don’t get work they stop buying things. If people don’t buy things, companies don’t make money. If companies don’t make money they won’t buy — or have a reason to buy —- AI companies’ services.

You cannot eliminate a significant chunk of labour cost without causing demand collapse. People saying that there is money in eliminating labour costs at that scale are not doing the whole of the calculation.

I'm not suggesting the people then sit idle. The economy can grow, services can be added, the % done by AI drops, but the raw value of it doesn't. It's just to show that the market is extremely large.

Like agriculture. That market has grown significantly through time, even though it's shrunk dramatically as a % of GDP.

How can people be economically active if their jobs are eliminated from the economy? At best they job-share, and demand still collapses, just in slightly different ways.

AI cannot make money as an alternative to large scale employment, because essentially all the clients of those AI businesses will see demand for their products and services collapse. AI bots don’t go to In-N-Out Burger or Disneyland.

Anything else is fantasy maths, albeit commonplace fantasy in the AI industry at the moment.

Look at the history of farming. Tractors also don't go to disneyland.
Right, but at best (putting aside the tractor's magnifying effect in the Great Depression) you would be looking at employment displacement from one sector to another. Those people went on to other jobs.

Here you are talking about a shift taking employment out of the economy full stop — taking the money that would have gone to "a good chunk of labor", to use your words, and giving it to AI firms.

You are necessarily talking about job elimination en masse — it's the only way this hypothetical source of money is available.

If you take labour out of the market, en masse, you cause demand to collapse. Because they won't be economically active!

No, I'm not. I was using it to size the market for AI. I don't imagine those people just sit idle. They do something else. Tractors took a good chunk of labor out of farming, those people didn't sit idle.
Most labor by any measurement is not knowledge work like software engineering.
If by most, you literally mean > 50%, sure. But I've heard it quoted that knowledge work in advanced economies is something like 40%. So, we are still talking extremely large numbers.
They are also the higher earners who buy more of the things.

Henry Ford said he needed to pay his workers enough that they could afford his cars.

I meant by dollar amount, not headcount.
OK, but look, again, if you take away a good chunk of the money that goes to employing people — that is what you mean, right? This money is lost to the labour market one way or another — then don't they buy less stuff because they have less money?

It's the same as if you had taken half their jobs and forced everyone into underemployment through job sharing.

Your formulation forswears them finding replacement jobs because the money will have gone to AI companies instead, and it necessarily implies people having less money to spend.

No, it doesn't. The economy can grow. Money isn't some fixed amount thing.
That’s a good way of looking at it, I appreciate the different perspective.

From your headline number you’d have to deduct non-knowledge work though.

You’d also have to take into account the fact that while AI can often replace some tasks, it’s often not enough to replace the entire worker.

For the high end knowledge worker jobs the corresponding token costs could be higher than the cost of wages.

Given the demand you describe, would it even make a difference whether you invested in OpenAI or Anthropic?

> If you assume AI takes a good chunk of labor, the market is gigantic. Really really really gigantic.

But without labor the entire economy also collapses into a singularity beyond which nothing really makes sense anymore, so there's that.

And it possibly does not take eliminating much of the labour over the span of less than a lifetime to fundamentally break economic signalling.

Much smaller rates of unemployment have worsened stagflation cycles due to various policy traps we are certainly not immune to repeating.