[phreack]

That Motorola phone that lets you install Graphene can not come soon enough. Pixel phones are not sold worldwide so it feels like they're gatekeeping security. I know that's not the case really, but there's very few ways to successfully degoogle otherwise.

[matheusmoreira]

> Pixel phones are not sold worldwide

Still boggles my mind the fact Google doesn't sell their phones worldwide. Obtaining a Pixel has proven to be quite difficult for me.

[wraptile]

Not only obtaining but if you ever need warranty you're done. Just last week I went to a Samsung center and had my fold 6 fixed in 30 minutes, and these centers are everywhere around the world. Same thing with Apple, yet a 4.5 trillion dollar company can't ship and maintain a phone globally. It's so unserious.

[elAhmo]

They definitely can, they just don't want to.

[whizzter]

And that's the unserious part, they really don't want anything to do with consumers despite making consumer products (gmail, Android, etc.) so you're always at the mercy of their automatic systems.

[rcbdev]

Google has historically always sucked at being a product company. Despite this, they're quite successful at it.

[w0wt1p]

But when there was a battery/overheat issue with pixel 6a, I must say Google handled the fix / compensation surprisingly well. My sample size just being me, but very smooth process and compensation processed rapidly.

[JBiserkov]

As the old joke goes: Microsoft is a software company, Apple is a hardware company, Google is an ads company.

[colordrops]

Isn't that just the truth based on revenue streams?

[matheusmoreira]

Yeah. Could be difficult even if one is willing to forgo the warranty. My city has local repair services, they easily repaired my old Samsung phone. Servicing Pixels could be difficult even for them.

[d3Xt3r]

Out of curiosity, what was wrong with your Fold 6?

[wraptile]

The inner screen built-in protector was peeling in the middle. It was out of warranty, but Samsung charged me 15$ which is very reasonable. The inner screen looks brand-new now, and I guess that's the benefit of these soft foldable screens - you can refresh the entire thing very easily.

[dakolli]

It still boggles my mind that the most popular privacy OS requires Google manufactured hardware, that fact alone makes me not trust it at all.

[flexagoon]

They list their exact criteria for supporting a device. So far, only Pixels fit all of them (and I guess the Motorolas will soon)

https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

[tcfhgj]

> So far, only Pixels fit all of them

might as well list all features of pixel phones

[HybridStatAnim8]

GrapheneOS does not depend on all of the features of pixel phones. The baseline requirements GrapheneOS has are generic, they are not built upon or tied to what pixel phones provide. Pixels actually exceed the baseline rather than barely meeting them.

Other OEMs can make devices that meet the requirements, and Motorola is doing just that. We should get Motorola devices with official GrapheneOS support next year.

[WD-42]

Phone hardware is a hellscape it doesn’t surprise me at all that they need to keep the number of supported devices small in order to deliver a decent product.

[lern_too_spel]

Despite Google's other failings, it was the OG supporter of data portability, and that spirit extends to its phones. No other phone manufacturer with wide distribution comes close. It's unfortunate that the people who design the hardware do such a poor job with the resources at their disposal.

[sharts]

Is it still the case that Android backups leave much to be desired when compared to iphone? Pretty much the only reason I use Apple is that I can switch to a replacement phone and it’s exactly the same state as the last backup.

[HybridStatAnim8]

GrapheneOS is not going to compromise on hardware security for the sake of spiting one specific company. GrapheneOS supports all viable platforms, and right now that is the pixel lineup. Additional device support requires OEMs step up their game, and so far, only Motorola is up to the task, and we should get Motorola devices with official GrapheneOS support next year.

There is nothing crazy about doing something properly.

[mvdtnz]

It's ridiculous is what it is. It makes me deeply distrustful of the organisation behind Graphene that they would make such a crazy choice.

[digitalPhonix]

The intersection of phones that have unlockable bootloaders, public-ish driver blobs and decent hardware is tiny.

What other phone would you pick?

[kevin_thibedeau]

Everything Lineage supports.

[jcgl]

How do you reconcile that position with what Graphene OS lists as requirements for support, as linked by another commenter? https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

I’m not an expert, but all the listed points there sound reasonable. If indeed only the Pixels support them, well, it’s too bad there’s not other, similarly secure hardware out there.

[hexfish]

Please go read this and try again: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

If you want Graphene level security you need to have the hardware for it.

[HybridStatAnim8]

It is not ridiculous at all. GrapheneOS is not going to compromise the privacy and security of their users for the sake of spite for one specific company. It would be immature and irresponsible to make important choices based on spite rather than objectivity.

Motorola has stepped up to meet the baseline requirements for GrapheneOS support, and we should get Motorola devices with official GrapheneOS support next year.

[okanat]

AFAIK Motorola only lets certain geographical regions to unlock bootloader, not everywhere.

[tom_alexander]

They're referring to the partnership between GrapheneOS and Motorola: https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at...

[okanat]

I'm aware. However, it is quite possible that they will only sell Graphene phones in certain countries considering their past behavior.

[tiagod]

They could also just sell the phones with GrapheneOS already, as the final state of a GrapheneOS instalation has a locked bootloader.

I understand this is part of the reason only Pixel phones are supported - the ability to unlock, and then relock bootloader after install is seen as essential by their team, among other features and properties that only present together in the Pixel phones.

[xvedejas]

I just moved away from GrapheneOS to Motorola because I decided I needed an audio jack again. There's definitely some annoying things about leaving, but at least now I can use again the three apps that didn't work for me on GrapheneOS...

[ccppurcell]

Which phone and is it android then? Maybe I'm out of the loop on Motorola. I just bought a pixel, thinking of trying graphene. I was a bit miffed about the lack of jack until my partner pointed out I hadn't used the one on my old phone for over a year. I'd like to in the future though.

[xvedejas]

moto g 2026; yes it's Android. Main downside is the relative lack of RAM honestly.

[StingyJelly]

I use usb-c dac and it is honestly fine. you can get one with charging bypass and keep that one with the charger

[xvedejas]

I've gone through about 5 USB-C adapters which eventually broke inexplicably. They also have extra noise in the audio when the volume is low for some reason.

[timedude]

Which apps didnt work?

[xvedejas]

Waymo, Philz coffee, Partiful

[NamlchakKhandro]

This is a thing now

https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/volla-os/

[microtonal]

Posting about Volla in a GrapheneOS thread is... I guess courageous?

They are kind of the opposite of GrapheneOS. Ancient kernel trees, ancient firmware bundles, etc. And since downstreams like /e/OS just take their kernels/firmware, they are ancient as well. Using Volla phones opens you up to a lot of known vulnerabilities.

Besides that, Volla is basically a marketing company (with some external contractors) that does Eurowashing. E.g. one of their phones (Quintus) is a phone designed by an Emirates company, produced by a Chinese ODM, marked up by 500 Euro by Volla (they probably turn some screws and flash the firmware to be able to call it 'from Germany'. You can get the same 719 Euro phone here for ~160 Euro:

https://www.amazon.ae/Android-Smartphone-Storage-Octa-Core-M...

I don't understand why people do free promotion for Volla, given that they are mostly snake oil salesmen.

[port11]

Wow, good to know. Sounds like the kind of company that Worse On Purpose would love! The shenanigans people go through to make money…

For the curious: https://marbit.substack.com/p/worse-on-purpose

[lucb1e]

I don't see anything they offer for security that's not also in AOSP/LineageOS/eOS/stock/etc.

Which is not to say that's not enough for most people, but why highlight them? It doesn't seem comparable to the laser-focus GrapheneOS has on security

[d3Xt3r]

Not GP, but Volla phones are cool in that they officially support running proper Linux[1], so you could just use Linux instead of Android if that's enough for your needs. And you can still boot into their de-Googled Android if you need to run Android apps.

[1] https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/ubuntu-touch/

[microtonal]

Volla just Eurowashes/rebadges other low to midrange phones at a huge markup. E.g., the Volla Phone Quintus is:

https://www.amazon.ae/Android-Smartphone-Storage-Octa-Core-M...

(If you don't believe it from the identical specs and design, you can look at the committers in their kernel trees and it is basically maintained by Daria people.)

Their new Plinius model is just the Gigaset GS6 with a 250 Euro markup:

https://www.gigaset.com/gigaset-gs6/

At least this is made by a German company, though Gigset is Chinese-owned now.

At any rate, these are just rebadged phones and IIRC, but don't hold me to it, in both cases the original phones also support bootloader unlocking.

[d3Xt3r]

It takes more than an unlocked bootloader to make Linux boot on random phones and work properly (and ensuring all the radios, camera, audio, phone calls etc work), and Volla have achieved that with their phones. I could be wrong, but I don't think it was possible to get a fully functional Linux distro going on any of these rebadged phones before Volla got to them.

[microtonal]

Volla is just forwarding the trees made available by their upstream ODMs. E.g. Gigaset publishes them:

https://github.com/Gigaset-dev

I am not sure about the Daria Bond, but in Ubuntu Touch (which seems one of the very few Linux systems that supports the Daria Bond, ahem, Quintus), most of it seems to be the work of LineageOS developers (probably for generic Mediatek support, since it's a run-off-the-mill Mediatek phone), with some changes from Daria people on top of it.

So, I think you are giving credit to Volla that should go to the upstream ODMs and Lineage.

Or just go to the Volla about page:

https://volla.online/en/about/

It's just sales, marketing, and customer support people.

[strcat]

Ubuntu Touch is drastically less private and secure than AOSP let alone GrapheneOS. Volla's devices don't come anywhere close to meeting the update and security requirements for GrapheneOS. GrapheneOS is a Linux distribution much closely following along with the Linux kernel LTS releases, unlike those devices. It also regularly moves to new Linux kernel LTS branches. Pixels are in the process of moving to the 6.12 LTS branch with Android 17 QPR2. 6.18 is currently in the early stage of stabilization.

[d3Xt3r]

Ubuntu Touch (or any Linux distro for that matter) offers drastically more freedom than GrapheneOS or any other Android distribution. Some people care more about freedom than so called "security", and I don't know about you, but I'll take freedom any day.

[gf000]

Freedom to get a stroke from an incomplete toy OS?

Snark aside, desktop Linux userspace (or gnu Linux, call it how you want) is nowhere near production ready. And even for the more general point, giving out root willy-nilly is not more freedom. It's more like letting your child play on the 5th floor of a half-constructed building that's about to be exploded. Your kid can enjoy their time just as much in the safe forest trail.

[Cider9986]

How can you be free when you're not private or secure?

Grapheneos is fully open source and comes with 0 Google services.

>so called "security"

Grapheneos is widely recognized as one of the most secure operating systems.

[HybridStatAnim8]

Android similarly supports, and in fact uses, "proper" Linux. Android and its forks are Linux distributions. You can use a mainline kernel in Android just fine.

[lucb1e]

Nah, Android is not a really a proper Linux system that 'supports' Linux software within any reasonable definition of the word; not anymore at least

Root nowadays gets you very little: software like wavemon that worked great on Android 4.4 no longer runs because selinux or whatever restrictions block nearly everything from working that isn't going through the Android API channels. Accessing external storage from Linux Deploy (running your favorite distro in userspace with root) no longer works; thankfully it does from Termux so I have some way of manipulating the files with standard Linux tools, but then that keeps getting killed and you need to restart sshd a few times per day if you want to actually use that as a remote access method for your photos.

The Linux processes are being shot at left and right, it's go android or go bust on android. Perhaps that sounded redundant but it used to be that you could install Xorg, Virtualbox and other GUI software, and knock yourself out. No more

[HybridStatAnim8]

Most of this is not related to the claim and is more tangential discussion about things you like that run on the linux kernel, now, there is nothing wrong with that, but I must emphasise that none of what you describe is a part of the criteria for what constitutes a linux distro. A linux distro is an operating system using the linux kernel. Android fits that criteria.

The policies and applications running on top of or in the linux kernel do not change its distro classification. Lacking root access is a massive step forward for privacy and security. Root access is insecure and a hacky shortcut to proper functionality.

[lucb1e]

Oh, one vendor supporting multiple OSes! I hadn't clicked through (https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/), that is neat indeed and quite a unique selling point among mobile vendors

This should have gone in my spreadsheet before I chose a new device xD. Ah well, next time

[goodpoint]

They look way more trustworthy.

[strcat]

Those are much less private and secure than the Android Open Source Project on Pixels without the major privacy and security improvements of GrapheneOS. Those aren't privacy or security hardened devices.