[PaulKeeble]

I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. Not necessarily because we are definitely at the stage where the home needs it, but because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat. Switching to fibre after 2.5gbit/s seems like the thing to do now and plenty of us now have access to internet speeds that can exceed 2.5gbit/s.

[ksec]

For may be specific professionals? For Prosumers I don't see the need even if I have access to 25Gbps Internet.

For majority of home usage it will all be WiFi. WiFi 7 has gotten to the point where prosumers are happy with its performance. WiFi 8 and 9 will further improve in that direction for reliability and speed.

With PoE, router and everything else Ethernet is still clearly the easiest choice. And as mentioned we now have sub 2W 10Gbps Ethernet. What will likely happen is that 10Gbps becomes like 1Gbps Ethernet, it will stay here for 10-20 years until something happen in the future that needs extra bandwidth.

May be in 10 years time 10Gbps could be done under 1W.

[Keyframe]

I did just that relatively recently in a house we bought. OS2 single mode duplex throughout the house, all converging to a trunk which is available in three locations for equipment. It's basically future proof, but also has its own well, things. You can't really plug into a duplex (I wish though), you have to put a small switch to it with SFP+ or 28 or whatever the speed you want. Higher speed switches are also a tad expensive. And then, there's the big one - PoE. That's why I also ran CAT6A next to each duplex to rooms and they're more or less for APs in the house. Overall it's definitely future proof and fantastic, but also a bit expensive if you wanna engage that fiber through the house. Pulling the cable itself isn't much of a cost at all and I recommend it.

[throw0101c]

> OS2 single mode duplex throughout the house, all converging to a trunk which is available in three locations for equipment.

What do you mean by "trunk which is available in three locations"?

Usually cabling is home-run to a single, central patch panel. A cable (fibre, copper) would usually have one end in a room's wall outlet, with the other end at a patch panel: how would you have a cable one end at three locations? Do you have three patch panels? I.e., three hubs, with the room cables going to one hub and then you can have hub-to-hub runs?

[CobaltFire]

Finishing up the same thing. 2x OS2 pairs with 2x CAT-6A to each drop, all coming together to the network closet.

Gives me fiber for bandwidth and copper for PoE. Figured it was smarter to do both than compromise to either one, and surprisingly the fiber was cheaper than the copper to pull.

[oofabz]

Why not multi-mode? The transceivers are a lot cheaper, especially for 100G and above.

[CaliforniaKarl]

Yes, 100G multimode transceivers are cheaper, but they don't use the same fiber.

100G on singlemode (100G-LR4 being the most common) uses the well-known two-strand ("duplex") fiber. Or you can get 100G bi-directional ("BiDi") over a single strand of singlemode (fiber-to-the-home often uses this).

100G on multimode is weird. As the name implies, one beam of light, sent down the core of a multimode fiber, results in multiple modes (search "Laser modes") being sent down the strand. As they overlap, it gets hard to get a clean signal out the other end.

To deal with this issue, 100G on multimode uses fiber cables containing multiple strands per direction of travel. MPO-8 and MPO-12 are common cables used for 100G multimode: It contains eight or twelve strands of fiber. Four strands are used to send, four to receive. And the prices for those cables are higher than standard duplex singlemode cable.

[throw0101a]

> Why not multi-mode? The transceivers are a lot cheaper, especially for 100G and above.

OS2 transceivers are not that expensive anymore with the rise in third-party modules: sure, first-party, OEM SKUs are pricey, but a home user is not going to go that route.

Standard /r/networking advice is to go single-mode basically everywhere due to price drops over the last 10+ years.

[throwawaysoxjje]

If you just want to use LC connectors everywhere, they’re the same price. Plus single mode fiber has the advantage that there’s only two kinds and we really only use one of them.

The math worked out just to move to single mode a decade ago

[xxpor]

Doing the cabling job was a weekend long project for me, I just never want to have to do that again (yes yes I should have run conduit and pull strings, but single mode just means I didn't have to even do that)

[mittensc]

single mode are pretty cheap too (12e for 10gbit/s bidi for example)

[brianwawok]

I did this and used little $129 Zyxel SFP+ to 2.5G copper switches to get to my access points. Has been running smooth!

[fooblaster]

So tell me... how much did you spend? Is fiber doable without insane money.

[aix1]

I recently pulled OS2 fibre throughout my aparment and it was surprisingly inexpensive.

Four-fibre cable was about US$ 1.5/m (here in Switzerland, I am sure cheaper elsewhere).

I picked ONTi JT-S508CL-8S as the main 10G fibre switch (direct from Ali, for about 100 bucks).

For wired Ethernet and PoE, I have a couple of KeepLink KP-9000-9XHPML-X switches (I paid about 60 buck for each, they seem to cost around $85 now). I find that they work well and use them for 10/100/1000/2500 GbE switching and to power various devices (other switches, U7-Pro-XGS AP, Zigbee dongle, home automation server, rack fans etc).

The main splice box was about 60 bucks, 24 pigtails included.

From memory, 10G SFP+ fibre modules were about ten bucks apieces. (DAC cables are cheaper, 10G copper transceivers are more expensive.)

Plus various paraphenalia (wall face plates, keystone modules, more pigtails etc), all of which was pretty cheap.

Note that I was able to borrow a fusion splicer from a friend. Otherwise they seem to start at around 500 bucks; buying one would have been the single biggest expense.

I also run a 25G path from one point in my flat to my ISP. The cabling is exactly the same but 25G switching equipment and optics are considerably more expensive and less available than 10G.

[fooblaster]

wow! that is way cheaper than what I would have expected. thanks china...

[aix1]

That, plus the existence of chipsets used in those switches, such as Realtek RTL8372/RTL8373 and RTL9303. Feature rich yet dirt cheap.

I particularly like per-pert PoE power monitoring on the RTL837x. I hooked that up to my netdata to get a full history of how much each device in my rack is drawing. Don't need a fancy PDU or separate power bricks for each device -- everything is powered by the $60 switch.

(This is a home network and I'm not at all bothered about single points of failure or lack of redundancy/failover.)

[Keyframe]

You can check out FS (.com) it's quite cheap. For distribution from my attic (where all conduits converge to) to rooms I ran OS2 LC UPC duplex patch cables together with CAT6A. There I have a small rack with a patch panel and a PoE switch (to run APs) and from there I have a 48-strand trunk going to my basement where I have a bit of a larger rack with equipment. That way my APs are connected to main network via PoE switch which is connected via fiber and all the wall outlets with fibers are connected directly to main rack with equipment. Furthermore, I also ran another trunk from basement to garage where eventually I'll run everything from (with full height racks.. yeah, overkill) - with a wall patch panel I can just rewire trunk to trunk, close the panel and that's it.

If we're not accounting for switches, we're talking maybe few hundred euros at most including cables and outlets both for fiber and CAT6A, maybe 400-500 total or so where majority was CAT6A since I opted for the more _industrial one_, includes 150 I paid for help to run the cables through conduits. Fiber was all patch from distribution to walls, and trunk mainlines are _industrial_ fibers where in a single small diameter cable you have 48 strands of single mode. Actually in one I have 72 strands since guys didn't have 48 at the time and diameter is the same and price difference was small. This is for a three story house + basement and a run to the garage. I did the crimping myself, you do NOT "crimp" fiber yourself.. you get pre-made cables or for trunks you ask for pros with equipment to splice/fuse it for you.

Network equipment is a range of course. I opted for dream machine gateway for net and then the backbone is Switch pro XG Aggregation where most equipment is at with Switch Pro XG 10 PoE for APs (has dual 10GBit uplink), and a few smaller switches on the edges like Flex 2.5G for cameras etc. Yeah, I went full ubiquiti on that one and my mainline is basically 25Gb network, but it doesn't matter and that's the beauty of this setup - I could've easily gone full 1Gbit, 10, 25, 100, 400, even Nvidia/Mellanox 800Gbit OSFP with appropriate transcievers if one wants to go way overboard. Idea was to run this through to be future-proof cable-wise for another 10+ years (probably more), and for network setup to be for next 10 years (probably more) with 10/25G.

[cortesoft]

Fiber optic cable itself isn't that expensive. You can easily get it for less than $0.20/foot.

It shouldn't be that much different in price to run fiber verse running cat6. The expensive part is the labor, not the cable.

[Keyframe]

I forgot to say this, but you said it. Fiber is cheaper than CAT6A, and labor is the expensive one. If you have conduits, you don't need much labor then. Ask an electrician or a buddy to help out for a hundred or two for an hour or two and you can do it yourself. It's not a big deal (IF YOU HAVE CONDUITS IN GOOD CONDITION / SHAPE).

[fooblaster]

I think I was more referring to the switches with sfp and the transceivers themselves. I have never tried to get something "low end".

[toast0]

At 10g, sfp+ switches are cheaper and more available than 10gbase-T switches. Fiber transceivers seem reasonable, but I could be off; I've only looked a little at fiber prices, I already have cat5 in the wall, so I'm on DAC for nearby stuff and twisted pair for other rooms for the forseable future. I don't really need 10G, but it provides a bit of fun.

[Keyframe]

for shorter runs you might even get 10G on cat5.

[tombert]

I have ten gigabits throughout most of my house, and you're right: copper is not happy pushing ten gigs.

My 10 gigabit thunderbolt dongle weighs about a pound, and I think 90+% of that weight is just heatsink. If I've had it plugged in for awhile, if I accidentally touch that dongle it actually hurts because it's so hot. I cannot image that much heat is good for, well, anything.

I have another Thunderbolt dongle that has an SFP+ module, so I ran a fiber line from my switch to my computer, and that runs considerably cooler. That's what I use nowadays.

[Fnoord]

> I have ten gigabits throughout most of my house, and you're right: copper is not happy pushing ten gigs.

DACs are copper, and they're happy.

> I have another Thunderbolt dongle that has an SFP+ module, so I ran a fiber line from my switch to my computer, and that runs considerably cooler. That's what I use nowadays.

This is also what I am doing, and I love it. Much better and more reliable than WLAN. I want as much wired as possible.

However... recently, Realtek released several products adding cheap, affordable, low-power 10 gbit SFP+ and PCIe copper (even certain for routers/switches, too). STH did reviews: they're performing. Specific chipset are: RTL8127, RTL8127AP (servers, with management), RTL8127ATF (fiber, no 10/100 mbit)), RTL8127AT (idem, but copper), RTL8159 (USB-C), RTL8261C (SFP+ copper, and media converter). See the examples here: [1]. I've already seen various been selling since ~December on AliExpress, especially copper RTL8127 variants (back then, even one RTL 10 gbit PCIe SFP+ variant). There appears to be one caveat: macOS isn't supported, Windows and Linux are.

I get the case for PoE, but PoE is apparently not as power-friendly as using a dedicated charger. I do find it much more elegant though.

Edit: I'd like to add that I've been having good success with Aquantia AQC100S which I use in my desktop (running Linux, and using a SFP+ for 10 gbit fiber), as well as a Sonnet TB3 (to SFP+ for 10 gbit fiber, running macOS M1 MBP). Both don't get hot, don't use a lot of power, and the connections saturate. Mind you, it is important to specifically go for the AQC100S and not the AQC107 or AQC113 which are both much more common. Both use more power. Because I got good success with these, and my router is sporting a X710 4 port SFP+ NIC (which could be more efficient, to be fair, but it is what it is) I am no longer interested myself in any alternatives. I'm settled.

[1] https://www.techpowerup.com/337113/realtek-to-bring-affordab...

[ploek]

> DACs are copper, and they're happy.

Yeah, but DACs are pretty short and tend to have much thicker cables than regular copper Ethernet.

[jiveturkey]

> DACs are copper, and they're happy.

Well come on. GP really means category cable (twisted pair copper) is not happy at 10Gb distribution lengths (so-called horizontal cabling, although in a home it may span multiple floors without IDFs). That's kind of obvious context.

DACs are not category cable; they are twinax, short, and bulky.

[Fnoord]

Still, it is useful to mention.

If PoE required: use copper twisted pair.

If both sides SFP+ (preferred, but not always possible):

Physical presence: DAC (very cheap).

Not physical presence (e.g. has to go through wall, floor, or longer distance): fiber (OM3 are very cheap but apparently the color being translucent is regarded as nice).

Else: copper twisted pair.

I've applied this on my (rental) house. One server has a 10 gbit copper twisted pair NIC because it also has a PCIe switch with M.2 storage on the same physical PCIe board. Two WLAN APs are powered by switch in fusebox. The Unifi Protect appliance is also powered by twisted pair copper. But I was also able to get an OM3 fiber through the same wall hole.

And always terminate at walls. So if a cable in house goes bad, the one through the wall or the socket is unaffected. Works with both fiber and twisted pair copper.

You can already notice it in this post. DAC barely is part of the content. It is fire and forget, no caveats, lowest latency and lowest power usage. So it tends to be forgotten, but a DAC cable is useful if both devices got physical (vicinity) presence. An alternative could be networking over TB.

[myrandomcomment]

What standard of cable? When I rewired I ran Cat6a everywhere. My longest 10G run is ~70 meters and works just fine. Anytime I had a link issue it was because I did not do the best job in termination on the keystone jack.

To be clear the Cat6a is thicker than Cat6 and harder to work with. It makes termination a bit more tricky.

[tombert]

I use Cat 8.

The cables themselves don't get too hot, but the dongles themselves seem to get really hot. I'm assuming that's a known issue given the size of the heatsinks on them.

[andwur]

Unfortunately that's non-DAC copper cabling life it seems. They build them to work at the rated speed at the maximum rated distance (on the transceiver, not the spec) and none of them appear to link train to reduce the power output over shorter runs.

If you use a DAC they usually run cool, and optical is even cooler.

[drnick1]

What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need, because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use. I experimented with SFP for a while, but ultimately concluded that it isn't worth the effort to add SFP cards to PCs now that that low-power 10G Ethernet chips like the RTL8127 are available. High-end motherboards already have 10G Ethernet and soon lower-end models will too. 2.5G is practically standard already.

[parl_match]

> What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need

Is answered in the comment you responded to:

> because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s

As for

> because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use

We are looking to the future. If you're putting stuff in the walls, then you should try to target something that will be adequate both today, and in 10 years from now.

Increasingly, prosumer stuff is including an SFP port. High end PCs will be shipping it in the near future, as well. And, while low-power chips are coming out, the simple fact is that physics are getting in the way.

I do think that the average home won't need more than 2.5gbps, pretty much indefinitely (an 8k video at "bluray quality" is about at most 5% of that bandwidth). But if you have any desire of going past 10gbps, Ethernet is not going to cut it.

And yes, before you ask, there is a 25gbase-t standard. Maximum distance: 30m (100ft). 100ft from panel to panel in a house? Oof.

[SoftTalker]

> I do think that the average home won't need more than 2.5gbps, pretty much indefinitely

Yeah I'm not seeing a need for fiber or anything more than CAT6. Most household devices use WiFi and I think that will continue. People don't like wires. They're unsightly, collect dust, get tripped over, etc.

I already have coax cable and telephone wiring in my walls that's unused. One computer in my house has a wired network connection. Everything else, TVs, laptops, printers, phones, tablets, miscellaneous "things" are all WiFi.

[JamesSwift]

> And yes, before you ask, there is a 25gbase-t standard. Maximum distance: 30m (100ft). 100ft from panel to panel in a house? Oof

Not to mention termination and interference considerations, etc. When I looked at it, I decided anything over 2.5g just wasnt worth all the extra hassle vs running fiber instead.

[thefz]

Ever ran a single mode bidi fibre in a conduit? Push a wire puller, cleave and terminate ends, done. Zero effort unlike pulling a jacketed CAT7 cable, zero worries from electrical interference too, future proofing up to 40GBps. I ran double strands in my house so in case one breaks, there's another.

The floors where native fibre is not needed have a cheap ethernet media converter from fs.com, everything else (3 floor switches) are interconnected with 10Gbps SFP+ modules and 2.5G ethernet for the hosts.

All done thanks to the great https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-08-09-fiber-link-ho...

(if you are reading this, I owe you several beers)

[drnick1]

The issue with this setup is that you need an extra switch with an SFP+ uplink or media converter in each room or place where Ethernet will be used. And then you still need Ethernet cables anyway for the end devices. I can't justify this complexity for 40Gbps when I can now get 10Gbps inexpensively and conveniently.

[navigate8310]

Well, if you live in a multistorey house, each floor can be interconnected by bidi fiber, then you simply run ethernet to the end points.

[thefz]

Each floor's fiber terminates in a CRS310-8G+2S+IN except where I mentioned, there's a single 1G media converter.

[throw0101c]

If your walls are ripped open, then sure run some OS2 everywhere, but Cat 6A gets you 10GbE at 100m, but even 'only' Cat 5e or (plain) 6 gets you that speed up to 55m (per 802.3an):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#10GBASE-T

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Var...

Why the need for faffing about with media convertors, at least with-in your domicile? (Fibre outside / to the garage certainly makes sense.)

[thefz]

> Why the need for faffing about with media convertors, at least with-in your domicile? (Fibre outside / to the garage certainly makes sense.)

For all the benefits I mentioned above, plus no electrostatic shielding required, and all fibers end in a CRS310-8G+2S+IN.

[pezezin]

What? Ethernet is a layer 2 protocol, SFP and RJ45 are both layer 1 (PHY). Ethernet runs fine over both SFP and RJ45.

[denkmoon]

Yes, but 10G really is the limit. I'll eat my boiled boots if 25GbE copper becomes anything you could remotely consider "common".

[rayiner]

We are pushing multiple gigabits over 100 year old phone lines so never say never.

[denkmoon]

Not never, just not common. Why would you even want it when fibre already does better, cheaper?

[glitchc]

640KB still enough for everyone?

[tempest_]

I mean.. cat8 already exists but it will never be common because most people who dont make home networking a hobby just use wifi.

Hell many many people now a days own only a tablet and phone and no desktop/laptop at all.

Someone else in this thread mentioned motherboards with SFP ports on them and I cant believe that will ever be common because people can barely handle the many flavours of cables using USB C, how are they going to manage the mishmash of transceivers that only like specific brands and the DAC cables that may or may not work depending on how they feel that day.

[denkmoon]

Server boards typically use SFP, and for typical consumers you’re 100% correct that wifi is all that matters.

[tempest_]

For sure, I was thinking consumer desktop motherboards.

Even server boards often have their SFP in daughter boards specific to the chassis.

[esseph]

My APs are fiber now.

[sokoloff]

I expect my APs will be the last things to convert away from copper because of the need for power. (I just deployed new WiFi 7 APs with 10G PoE++ links.)

[rayiner]

I don’t think we’ll ever see fiber ports in consumer devices. If we ever get beyond 10g connections in consumer devices, we’ll figure out how to run it over cat5e. I’ve got 10g running just fine over an 80 foot run of 20 year old cat5e that goes from my bedroom, up to the attic, across the house, down three floors to the basement, and across the house in the other direction. I bet you could get 25G over cat5e at these distances using FEC and some superhero-level codings that’ll be feasible by the time we need it.

[AshamedCaptain]

"High power consumption" is debatable, since even these hot transceivers are consuming about 3W, and the replacement ones are closer to 1W. At 1W per port, the switch you'll put them in likely has higher overhead...

It is difficult, but possible, to find a SFP+-capable switch where idle consumption scales at around 1W/port, but less than that I have not found.

[cbdumas]

There are probably still a lot of cases where you would want PoE though right? Cameras, WAPs, etc.

[brianwawok]

Waps are next to power, some even have SFP+ ports

[vlan0]

But why...it doesn't solve a problem we currently face. We aren't even anywhere near 10Gbps in RF. And that's assuming you are maxing all three bands.

[ExoticPearTree]

Yes, definitely you should run fiber through the walls. And leave more in the walls in case you need to route it somewhere else in the future.

The upside of this is that you can increase bandwidth as the technology evolves without needing to rerun cables anytime a new specification is created for high-speed copper. OM5 fiber can do up to 400Gbps for short distances. Maybe in the future you can bundle a few pairs up and have a remote GPU sitting somewhere.

The downside is that you may need MCs, but they are small and can be hidden in wall outlets.

[readingnews]

Totally agree, I went to fiber years ago, and the decrease in latency makes it _feel_ so much faster than 10G copper, it is not funny. Besides, if you put in the "good stuff" them moving to 40G and beyond is not a problem later on. Like others said, just add a copper line for POE devices, but for systems... its fiber all the way.

[ahepp]

I wasn't aware there was a substantial latency difference between fiber and copper. Some googling suggests copper might be .4-.8c and fiber might be a more reliable .6c? But even if there was a huge difference in speed of light through the medium, inside a home aren't the distances so short that it wouldn't matter?

[KeplerBoy]

There's no way you could feel even a millisecond in latency difference and that would be a lot.

[glitchc]

That can't be right. The old network must've had a problem somewhere. I'm running 10G copper throughout the house and my latency is ~1ms from the office upstairs to the server in the basement (across three switches). Using moonlight to game for example and it is flawless.

[collabs]

I would be grateful and happy to have gigabit Ethernet with cat 6A in every room instead of this single landline phone jack and/or coaxial cable. The most important thing is a good conduit in place when the house is built.

[toast0]

Depending on when your landline phone jacks were put in, you might be able to reterminate with rj45 and run something-baseT, although you'll need four pair to hit gigE or better. Works better if your house was wired with home runs to somewhere useful, but even daisy chained runs can go room to room with a switch per room.

[collabs]

> Depending on when your landline phone jacks were put in, you might be able to reterminate with rj45 and run something-baseT, although you'll need four pair to hit gigE or better. Works better if your house was wired with home runs to somewhere useful, but even daisy chained runs can go room to room with a switch per room.

This is very useful and actionable information. At the very least I think it will be useful to plug in the mesh WiFi access point thingy if I actually have four pair in there. I will check. Thank you!

[petterroea]

I just don't see the average consumer ever needing more than 10gbit. In fact, I can tell you right away most consumers wouldn't notice if they were running 500mbit vs 1gbit.

4G has been enough for a decade, 5G was mostly just an infrastructure and capacity improvement and most consumers could never tell you they notice a difference between the two. The human eye can only see so much resolution, we don't need 8k video. I don't think consumers will need more than what they already have. At least until some new novel media format that gulps down bandwidth comes around.

This isn't necessarily all bad news. There is still a push for higher bandwidth for datacenters etc, which will keep pushing technology forward, hopefully making consumer and ISP grade equipment cheaper.

If I built a house I'd probably run ethernet. Maybe play around with a 10gbe core network. But it wouldn't really give me any benefit, it's not like disks are that fast anyways.

[Hasz]

you should be putting in conduit -- either smurf tube, emt, sch40, or similar. can pull whatever, and more importantly, if a cable is damaged by an overly zealous gorilla during installation, it can easily be fixed and replaced.

[throwaway85825]

I wish conduit was a requirement for new construction.

[throw0101c]

> I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now.

How many consumer devices have an ((Q)SFP(+)) optical cage?

If you're in their pulling stuff anyway, sure, do some OS2, but for most people, for most devices, Cat 5e/6 is more useful, especially since you can do POE(+(+)) over it as well. 5e/6 gets you 10GbE to 55m, and 6A to 100m.

[protocolture]

Personally, if I was building a house, anywhere I want significant non wifi hardware would have a switch anyway.

[toast0]

In my house, I've got a switch at tvs with multiple devices.

One place with two desktops has a switch, although when I finish up some stuff, I'm going to reterminate the phone line that's there as rj45 so both desktops can get 2.5G to my 2.5G switch. Could be sfp+, but they're mini-itx.

The kitchen desktop has its own 2.5G port; the printer next to it is on wifi because I don't want to buy a 2.5g capable switch for them to share. Mini-itx again

My work desktop has 10g-baseT.

Fiber would work for all of that, I guess.

But then I have a tv with just one device on 100base-TX. And the access points don't have spf, and aren't near other equipment.

[sschueller]

That is what I did[1] and also I used single-mode, not multi-mode.

[1] https://stefan.schueller.net/posts/wiring-a-home-with-fiber/

[nly]

I'd settle for 1 Gbps with a real IP address (UK)

[tiffanyh]

> ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat

Do you mean Ethernet cables get hot? Or just the networking equipment pushing that data.

I ask because I’ve never heard of Ethernet cables getting hot.

[AshamedCaptain]

No, the transceivers get hot. This is because of plenty of small metal surfaces, so even if they do not consume too much they will immediately get warm to the touch.

[gerdesj]

PoE++ can get warm but you wont be doing that with fibre!

Before specifying fibre everywhere I suggest you note that a CAT 6 cable can manage 10G and PoE++. Its a lot more resilient to breakage too, especially outside the data centre.

If you really want to blow some cash there is CAT6A, which is probably not indicated unless you want cable lengths of more than say 50m.

[throwaway85825]

Fiber makes a lot of sense for data but you still need a lot of copper for PoE and iot devices.

[zer00eyz]

> the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet

You should be running both.

If you are being smart about it your planning distributed switching (fiber to media boxes with power).

From a pure networking stance, fiber is the way to go. But POE continues to have more and more uses (doorbells, cameras, sensors, lighting controls).

[whalesalad]

You cannot do PoE over fiber.

[CamperBob2]

Hold my laser and watch this (with remaining eye)

[esseph]

You still need to power things.

Often that will mean running both Cat6A and fiber.