[seanmcdirmid]

See, it’s statements like this that make me want to run away like heck from this.

Netanyahu is a hack, a war monger, all sorts of bad, but Palestinians continued support for Hamas and seeing large scale cross border kidnapping/murder as a “police issue”, it’s hard for me to feel sympathy.

So I bought an EV and that’s the end of it.

[basisword]

>> Palestinians continued support for Hamas

Have you ever stopped to think _why_ they might continue to support Hamas? The Israeli government (and many citizens) continue to take their land. Force them out of their homes. Treat them worse than animals. They can kill 70k people and face almost zero consequences internationally. They've got the backing of a superpower. If you were treated like that I'm sure you would plead for calm, peace, and love. If people are treated inhumanly on mass scale they will revolt because they feel like they have no other option.

[bulbar]

> The Israeli government (and many citizens) continue to take their land. Force them out of their homes.

People in the Westbank seem to mostly support Fatah, not Hamas.

I do generally agree though that the strength of Hamas was fueled by the dire situation of the population in Gaza and Israel's actions (before Oct 2023).

That must not mean that one should stand by the side of mass murderers. You can be against Israel's actions and for the Palestine people and still condemn Hamas' actions, and every sane person should.

They came into power and murdered their own people to consolidate their power. They are a terror organization. It's disturbing to me that many (not meaning you in particular) fail to understand that.

[basisword]

>> That must not mean that one should stand by the side of mass murderers

The problem is that this is so ambiguous it took me a minute to work out who you meant. The mass murderers you're referring to have murdered many fewer people than the other side. They have done some heinous things but they're only a 'terror organisation' because their crimes aren't sanctioned by a state. A state which has also reportedly done many heinous things. My point being, if Israel were not so supported by the West I think we would look at both sides of this conflict with disgust.

[bulbar]

That's possible, but isn't a counter argument to my point - not sure if it was intended as one though.

For the people in the southern levante to live in peace, Hamas must be overcome as well as Netanjahu and his clique.

[seanclayton]

> it’s hard for me to feel sympathy.

That is a you problem, but the first step to improvement is acknowledgement, so kudos. An improved ability for sympathy is encouraged.

[gmerc]

The Epstein Class solution to turmoil of the soul - give Elon money instead

[seanmcdirmid]

Elon isn’t the only person selling EVs. I’m glad I’ve never given him money. We should just wash our hands of the Middle East though, maybe if the western world stops caring, all of the parties will come together and figure out a way forward that doesn’t involve killing each other.

[Sabinus]

Without Western support Iran and the proxies will choke Israel until either they make concessions to the Palestinians (which can be a very good thing, depending on the concessions demanded), or Israel gets backed into a corner and either really does a genocide, or drops a (hopefully only tactical) nuke.

The most likely best future is when Western support is predicated on making decent concessions to the Palestinians. I'm not in the position to say what they are at the moment but more autonomy for the Palestinian state proposed in Oslo would be a good start.