[pclowes]

It is not like the money is in his bank account.

And it’s not like he took the money from somebody else.

He spent a ton of time to create something that he owned the majority of and to make that thing more valuable. He paid other people to help him and they were happy with that exchange. The government also helped them and they were happy with that exchange.

Suddenly, people have assigned a concrete value to the thing via the IPO and it is very valuable.

It’s not like he suddenly has $1 trillion in his account. It’s just the thing that he made and has ownership of is suddenly worth that much.

[CPLX]

Of course he took the money from someone else.

Is your theory that he dug it out of the ground with a shovel or something?

[schoen]

That must be why there is exactly as much wealth now as there was in the year 600. We've all just been stealing it back and forth.

[pclowes]

Thank you, I never thought debating economics on hacker news of all places would be the equivalent of discussing orbital mechanics with flat earthers.

[CPLX]

I have a degree in economics and wrote my economics thesis on the application of complex adaptive systems to economic theory. I'm still quite attached to economic analysis, it's even the story behind my user name.

You can be assured I understand the concept of wealth creation.

But the fact that there are, in fact, other people involved here is hilariously hand-woven away here:

> He paid other people to help him and they were happy with that exchange. The government also helped them and they were happy with that exchange.

OK I will bite. Who determines what "the government" thinks in a democracy? The general public, right? Does the general public seem happy?

[pclowes]

Is the general public happy? Who cares, it is not the job of the government to ensure happiness but rights.

Regardless:

1. Starlink is amazing (literally never want to fly on an airplane without it ever again, wish I could search for flights based on having it)

2. Starship is amazing. (ensures American space dominance for generations)

3. Being able to manufacture hard things at scale and employ hundreds of thousands of people and making thousands of millionaires is amazing for our economy!!

Unless they are fools, the general public should be stoked AF.

[CPLX]

Yes, if you're the kind of person who just kind of thinks that Elon's stuff is really really cool, then that's fine. I have no reason to think your point of view is insincere. I have quite a few good friends who share it with you. And I strongly believe in your right to express it and to vote based on it.

With that said, it might also be instructive to realize that most people in the country are coming to fucking hate this bullshit. They're exhausted at the fact that our economy is now dominated by financial extraction and that nearly all of the resources of the country are accruing to a tiny group of people.

They're increasingly unable to afford housing in the places that they grew up. They're unable to raise their families. They're unable to have any sense of security or continuity in their life whatsoever.

And the best part is that they have to listen to people like you calling them fools for wanting to live healthy and productive lives, for valuing human connection over technology, for value and tradition over innovation. They get to be told that they're lazy for not having built some sort of financial engineering machine to extract money like you guys did.

The problem for you guys is there's a lot more of them than there are of you. At a certain point, they will kill you and eat you for your protein content.

It's happened quite a few times in history before. So good luck with all that.

If you want a tip, you might want to think about how we can harness the power of all this incredible innovation and still get exciting new toys and quality of life improvements while also having a society that's more balanced, fair, and healthy for all the participants, including the ones who aren't as smart or weren't born into money.

[nfw2]

It's curious to me that the message board run by arguably the most significant capitalist group in tech seems to hate capitalism and tech

[CPLX]

First of all, it doesn't. The Silicon Valley market fundamentalist, future worshipping contingency is still very much alive and well here.

But I do agree and have noticed that the tone here is radically different than it would have been five or ten years ago. I've been around for a while here as well.

I think that's a sign of the cultural shift underneath our feet. Silicon Valley and the tech sector in general has almost no goodwill left. They've harmed too many people for that at this point.

[peab]

His money is tied to his equity. The equity itself is created by typing a number into a computer - it's not taken from anybody. The equity represents the value that the company has created

[tim333]

Nah. We are talking about people who started businesses that are then valued at $1bn.