[Arodex]

Immigrants can't vote on federal votations, dumbass.

And it takes more than a decade to have a chance at trying to get naturalized in Switzerland - a process that takes more than a year and thousands of CHF.

And naturalized immigrants have been shown to be ready to "pull the ladder behind them", even in countries where it is easier to get it (see the many interviews of Turks voting AfD in Germany or Indians voting Conservative in the UK).

Edit: FabCH concurs.

[kgwgk]

> Immigrants can't vote on federal votations, dumbass. […] And naturalized immigrants

can!

[Arodex]

When do they stop being immigrants?

If you think people who waited more than a decade and paid a hefty sum to affirm their will to be citizens are second-class (or maybe even traitors!) compared to people who became citizen by making no effort and were just born that way...

[includenotfound]

I recently got the Swiss passport but I'm still very much an immigrant. I am also a dual citizen, and frankly, hold not much love for this country. It's a secondary thing to me, the way having a nice car is: yeah it's nice, yeah I wouldn't want to give it up, but no it's not my identity and it's not the end of the world, despite me possessing it.

I did not "wait" for it. I came here, worked a bunch, made more money than I would've in my home country, and got the passport mostly so that I can have a refuge in case of severe war, and to have better travel opportunities.

Blame me all you want, I'm giving you the honest view many (most?) of us have, that you won't hear in society for obvious reasons. Lifelong culture, values, family, and friends do not change because a person worked in a given country for N years and filled some paperwork to get a passport, and to think otherwise is NONSENSE.

[Arodex]

Not everyone has a mentality of mercenary like you and your circle of "friends".

> to think otherwise is NONSENSE.

Is it, or are you just scared shitless to have had the wrong outlook on life all your life, and don't want to even entertain the idea lest your whole psyche be revealed as a hollow valueless shell?

[brainwad]

+1 to your last point. The best you can hope for as a country is to select immigrants who align better with your ideals than with their home countries'. I think that's why Americans think integration is so easy - because immigrants to America deliberately choose America for its well known ideals. Whereas overland refugees aren't choosing Switzerland or even Europe this way, they are just coming because it's next door.

[includenotfound]

Yeah, I mostly agree, except that I didn't come to Switzerland because it's next door, but because I was sick of working hard and making no money in my home country - and it was either Switzerland or the US. I had offers from both, but chose Switzerland because at the time I was still brainwashed by the legacy media and believed that the US is hell on Earth (which I regret now)

[kgwgk]

> When do they stop being immigrants?

Never?

> If you think people who waited more than a decade and paid a hefty sum to affirm their will to be citizens are second-class (or maybe even traitors!)

I don't think so. Do you?

(Edit: I don't object to using 'immigrant' in a different way. But when someone said that in the places with more immigration there will also be more immigrant voters it was pretty clear in what sense the word was being used. Dumbass.)