[FabCH]

Immigration is not devolved. The whole point of Schengen is the opposite of devolution of immigration.

You are confusing immigration with naturalization. Only if Berlin starts handing out German passports do they dictate EU immigration single-handedly.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Only if Berlin starts handing out German passports do they dictate EU immigration single-handedly

Fair enough and great point.

It’s incredibly hard to naturalize in Switzerland. Less so in Germany. (Though still much harder than in America, at least based on my American friends who naturalized there and this Swiss of Indian and Germanic origin who naturalized in America.) It’s fair for those countries to want to maintain those differences.

[aranelsurion]

> It’s incredibly hard to naturalize in Switzerland. Less so in Germany

Is it? Asking out of curiosity, from a cursory look both countries require self-sufficiency, language (in fact Switzerland looks a little easier on this), no criminal background, an integration test to be taken (and both seem easy) and time in the country.

Only major difference seems to me is Germany takes 5 years in paper (more like 6-7 in reality with bureaucracy) and Switzerland takes 10 years in paper.

[kuerbel]

In Switzerland they are voting on naturalisation... which means you are at the whim of people living in the same place. If you don't fit in you'll have a hard time, if they don't like you for whatever reason etc, wrong hair colour, you name it. In Germany it's an administrative act with clear demands.

[FabCH]

Citizens voting on naturalization was abolished by federal court decision since 2008.

You can still be voted on by the city council though, but they are required to provide a reason and „wrong hair color“ will not pass legal challenge.

[kuerbel]

We are both correct in a way. Local authorities can still decide applications. It's no longer a secret ballot but naturalisation commissions, local councils, municipal parliaments, or assemblies.

Some decisions still make headlines though because the reasons are rather weird sometimes.

[snowpid]

Switzerland want less than B1? I find B1 barely can have a normal conversation.

[aranelsurion]

B1 speaking, A2 writing if my token predictor is correct. :) -- which is a little less than Germany (B1 both)

[viking123]

Some countries print them out very liberally though. Sweden did not require financial self-sufficiency or language ability until like 2 weeks ago. I raised this point back in like 2015 and was promptly called a racist. So these have been handed to people who have nothing to do with the country. Few other countries have done this too but less so. Now all their children etc. will have unfettered access to Switzerland.

Tbh I cannot see anything else but Swiss people at some point voting themselves out of this somehow.

[greyhound]

Your comments do land on the xenophobic side though. E.g."Indians with German passports": You need to pass a naturalization and language tests before applying for citizenship. Until recently you couldn't even apply without living in the country for 6+ years - now reduced to 4+. So how do you or potential Swiss know they are Indians? The first thing that comes to mind is that you're assuming it by the way they look.

[brainwad]

Eh, my PM has been in Switzerland for 8 years and it's still very obvious he's Indian from his accent, from his restaurant preferences and from his choice of holiday destinations... Just like I've been here 10 and it's still obvious I'm an Aussie. You can legally naturalize, but you will never truly be like a kid who grew up there in their formative years.