[alephnerd]

The issue is this means in aggregate only around 3-5% of the total population needs to flip in it's opinions for CHexit to happen - which is very doable over two election cycles.

A 55% win with 58% turnout despite how this vote was front and center of media discourse is very worrisome as this shows how disengaged the other 42% are.

[JumpCrisscross]

> in aggregate only around 3-5% of the total population needs to flip in it's opinions for CHexit to happen

If the marketing were less xenophobic and the cap were derived from some scientific basis, I think I could be persuaded to vote for it. Particularly since it is not a vote for Chexit, but a democratic vote to confront the EU. (Britain triggered Article 50. Nothing in this referendum directs Berne to do that.)

[anonymous908213]

> a democratic vote to confront the EU

In what way? It is a vote to adopt a policy that is in breach of your international treaty obligations. Unilaterally breaching your obligations is not a grounds for discussion or compromise, it is simply an exit from them, benefits included.

Suppose you're not getting on with your roommate. You could talk to them and try to resolve the problems, or you could default on your lease and receive an eviction notice from the landlord. You are opting for the latter. That is not "confronting" anything, it is a done deal. It is a choice you are allowed to make, to be clear, just as the Brits did, but let's not pretend it's something it isn't.

[JumpCrisscross]

> It is a vote to adopt a policy that is in breach of your international treaty obligations

It was a vote to renegotiate them under threat of disavowing them. That’s fine.

> You could talk to them and try to resolve the problems, or you could default on your lease and receive an eviction notice from the landlord

It’s totally fair, during those talks, to make clear that if you can’t reach an agreement on the roommate not doing their dishes, you’re prepared to move out. (That doesn’t commit you to moving out if they refuse to budge.)

[anonymous908213]

> That doesn’t commit you to moving out if they refuse to budge

The vote did commit you to amending your federal constitution with a population cap, period.

> If the 10-million threshold is exceeded, Switzerland would have to terminate these agreements, including the one with the EU on the free movement of persons after two years. This would also render the other agreements under Bilateral Agreements I null and void. Switzerland’s participation in the EU’s Schengen and Dublin agreements would also be called into question, thereby jeopardising close cooperation in the areas of security and asylum.

There is no room for negotiation in it. The government page itself spells out the hardline consequences.

But I suppose that's how these votes have to be marketed, isn't it? The Brits were under the delusion that they'd get to have their cake and eat it too, that they could keep any benefits of being in the EU even as they exited it. I wonder how many Swiss were aware they were voting to end their own freedom of movement, that blocking EU immigration would mean they would no longer be able to move elsewhere in the EU themselves. Which, again, is valid if that's the intention, but I suspect a lot of voters like yourself rather believed they were only voting to end freedom of movement for brown foreigners, or voting to negotiate special privileges, when in actuality it was literally a vote to exit treaties.

[JumpCrisscross]

> no room for negotiation in it. The government page itself spells out the hardline consequences

There is always room for negotiation. Bilaterals is a treaty, not a diktat. And again, 2 years provides time for another referendum.

> wonder how many Swiss were aware they were voting to end their own freedom of movement, that blocking EU immigration would mean they would no longer be able to move elsewhere in the EU themselves

Everyone did. The question was how the Guillotine clauses would be executed. Which, truly, nobody knows.

[anonymous908213]

> Bilaterals is a treaty, not a diktat.

The "diktat" is the thing you just voted on which says "we will not negotiate". There is always room for negotiation until you vote for a law that says "no negotiations, we are now legally mandated to do X".

> 2 years provides time for another referendum.

Voting for a no-negotiations amendment to your constitution as a negotiation tactic with the idea that you will later pass another constitutional amendment in a small window of time to revoke it is some kind of 4D checkers strategising that I suppose I am not enlightened enough to grasp.

[brainwad]

The party that proposed this vote has always opposed the treaties with the EU and yes this whole thing is just a thinly disguised way to repudiate the treaties as soon as practicable. They know what they are getting, it's not a cake-and-eat-it-too thing.

[rsynnott]

> Particularly since it is not a vote for Chexit, but a democratic vote to confront the EU

To confront the EU on an absolute red line, yes.

The EC is already not thrilled with the Switzerland situation and was fairly clear that it would not allow the UK to negotiate something similar; it is unlikely that it would allow Switzerland to make the deal _worse_. At a certain point it'd just cast off Switzerland entirely.

If the UK (70 million people) was unable to get the EC to move on this, it seems implausible that Switzerland (9 million) would be able to.

[brainwad]

> Nothing in this referendum directs Berne to do that

The initiative text literally directed the Bundesrat to withdraw from the bilaterals 2 years after exceeding 10m if they couldn't be renegotiated.

[JumpCrisscross]

> withdraw from the bilaterals 2 years after exceeding 10m if they couldn't be renegotiated

Sure. This is two years down the road. And it is not Article 50. It would cause a shitshow. But that shitshow could be averted and is less comprehensive than directing an EU exit.

[jltsiren]

Remember how Brexit started? Cameron wanted to renegotiate the terms of Britain's EU membership.

Of course, those negotiations didn't go anywhere, because the EU has a limited ability to make concessions. Any comprehensive deal must be approved unanimously by all member states and some subnational entities. And that just doesn't happen, unless the proposed deal is clearly better than the status quo.

[bpye]

The EU referendum in the UK was non binding, did not force the use of Article 50, and did not mention leaving the single market or customs union.

[FabCH]

I mean technically, it was also rejected by the Kantons-as-entities so if that 5% is unevenly spread, theoretically it could still be rejected by Kantonal majority…