[csallen]

> I suspect quite a few folks in the mines, factories, shipping, and retail chain that gets those "two happy parties" connected aren't so happy.

Okay, if you're going to make such a claim and trust in it, then can I presume you have answers to these two questions?

1. In a world without Apple, what would these people be doing that would make them happier?

2. What exactly is stopping them from doing that now?

[ceejayoz]

> What exactly is stopping them from doing that now?

I think the rise of China demonstrates they're certainly trying.

[esarbe]

1. Not being forced to work in the cobalt mines, I suspect.

2. Economic coercion. The people are forced by the capitalist system - that was shaped by capitalist interests - to participate in a system they don't have any say in. They cannot even opt out.

[csallen]

1. You didn't answer the question. You said what they wouldn't be doing. What would they be doing that would be making them happier?

2. You didn't answer this question either. What specifically is stopping them from opting out? Who is putting a gun to their head and saying they can't live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle or be a subsistence farmer?

The answer is nothing. People are largely making these choices themselves, because they're better options, for reasons that are obvious to anyone who's read a bit of history.

[greedo]

Are you familiar at all with how China has "encouraged" people from farming communities to work in factories?

[csallen]

And this wouldn't be happening if Apple didn't exist? This is a problem created by capitalist companies, not authoritarian communist governments?

[esarbe]

Capitalists make use of authoritarian governments. They go hand in hand.

What do you think slavery is?

[esarbe]

1. Maybe living as hunter-gatherers would make them happier.

2. You can't live as a hunter-gatherers because the land has been enclosed and privatized.

There's no choice involved here. Your - and my - freedoms have been taken away a long time ago.

[inigyou]

Um, the police will put a gun to your head if you're homeless. To not be homeless you can build on your land or someone else's land. If you build on someone else's land the police puts a gun to your head. To own land you need to participate in the system, and then after a whole lifetime working the cobalt mines the system might just let you get a section of property by the time you die if you're lucky.

[esarbe]

Very well put, thank you.