[andybak]

I reflect on that Bill Hicks rant occasionally as I get older and wiser.

It was stirring and idealistic when I was in my 20's.

However over the years my instinctive distrust of the world of commerce diminishes as I realise that humans live, swim and breath in commerce. It was here before art-with-a-capital-A and it will outlive it.

The other thing to remember is that art-with-a-capital-A was largely an invention of the Romantic movement. Artist-as-lone-hero and all that. It's not an eternal truth and in fact it creates a fictional view of the Artist that I distrust more over time.

[andybak]

And on a more practical level - good graphic design usually has more artistic merit than whatever the Saatchi's just dropped several million on.

[ti-85]

"Take the money and run," Woody Allen said it best.

[ontheotherhand]

"humans live, swim and breath in commerce. It was here before art-with-a-capital-A and it will outlive it."

Who is talking about commerce? It's about using emotion to lead people to make irrational choices. If you need rice and I farm rice, and I sell you some rice, that's commerce. It has however NOTHING to do with anything Bill Hicks ever ranted about. So don't flatter yourself I'd say, your insight isn't really one.

"The other thing to remember is that art-with-a-capital-A was largely an invention of the Romantic movement"

The idea that washing your hands is a great idea for doctors and in general is also fairly recent; so?

"in fact it creates a fictional view of the Artist"

No, it simply raised the bar. How can it be fictional if people existed and exist that fit the description? That's just wishful thinking on your part so you don't feel too bad for going back to sleep.

[samspot]

It's fictional because the idealism falls apart when you realize you have to find food and shelter somewhere, which costs money. Very few aspiring artists are independently wealthy. Doing a commercial is just another job. If you did a commercial advertising your art gallery would you lose all credibility as an artist? What is the difference between a commercial and a flyer? Do bands who advertise their shows forfeit their claim to be artists? I would also add that it isn't safe to assume someone is trustworthy just because they haven't done any commercials.

You also make the claim that all advertising is about trying to make people make irrational choices. But if I post a billboard that says "Come try our pancakes!", am I really trying to make you behave irrationally?

There is certainly plenty of "bad" advertising, and campaigns that artists would be better off not associating themselves with, but the blanket statement just doesn't fit.