[ricardobeat]

Creativity is still here. We have WebGL, canvas, CSS3, audio, mic, camera, in an environment that is evolving faster than Flash ever did. ES6 will bring js a bit closer to the formalism of AS3, though I don't mind it's current syntax lightness at all. There are many cool games and experiments being released every week.

[georgemcbay]

Warning: cool game of the week requires [Chrome developer channel|Firefox nightly] to run. Also does not run well on [Mac|Windows|Linux].

It is both funny and sad that in these days of the "open" web it is actually much, much more difficult to get good cross platform results when doing anything with graphics/sound.

[lloeki]

Games like X-Type[0] make me think things are getting there. The making-of is interesting[1].

[0]: http://phoboslab.org/xtype/

[1]: http://phoboslab.org/log/2012/06/x-type-making-of

[ygra]

Yeah, well, but x-type only requires a 2D canvas and that has worked for ages now, even without hw acceleration. WebGL is still a very different beast that can work, or not, or only crappily, depending on your browser, OS, graphics card and driver. I guess the percentage of those who don't have or dislike Flash is smaller than that of those who run into WebGL problems.

[lloeki]

Agreed, canvas works well now, but WebGL is younger than canvas, and this gives a hint at what WebGL will look like tomorrow.

What's more today the first cause of WebGL not working lies more in the graphics card periphery. OpenGL drivers on Windows are often an aftertought given DirectX prevalence, and on Linux some drivers are simply unstable with 3D acceleration, regardless of WebGL. Besides, short of software fallbacks like llvm-pipe or OSX, you can't invent features not supported by the card. Onve overriden[2] WebGL actually works[0][1] well on my embedded HD2000, but bugs in the driver make the whole thing randomly unstable, hence it is blacklisted by browsers (chrome://gpu even lists and links to bug reports, and lists Flash Stage3D as blacklisted too).

As for number counting, while the number of people running into WebGL problems exists, it has been drastically reduced since a year ago, when the number of people running into Flash problems for years, and is not shrinking.

ALso, there's not just graphics on X-Type, but correctly timed HTML5 audio too.

[0]: http://madebyevan.com/webgl-water/

[1]: http://alteredqualia.com/three/examples/webgl_cars.html

[2]: "Override software rendering list" in chrome://flags

[andybak]

There is an important difference which is that is a time of transition. There's nothing stopping anyone getting their browsers into shape and these APIs are slowly solidifying.

The story with Flash was much more single-vendor-dependent despite the half-hearted noises Adobe made over the years about supporting alternative implementations.

[cnp]

I agree. Like I said, I really enjoy the community and they're pushing hard for innovation -- since I moved away from AS3 and started focusing on JS, I feel like I've become a much better programmer -- but there are just too many variables to account for when it comes to a robust immersive, experiential solution in browser. Once Webkit takes 80% of the user-base I'll change my mind, but not until then; the difficulties absorb and complicate seemingly simple ideas.

That said, I've started playing with Three.js lately and it's impressively straight forward and filled with capability.

[ricardobeat]

Don't wait too long - many parts of the world already have great adoption rates for modern browsers. Here in Brazil Webkit sits at 58%, adding FF+Opera that's 78%.