[Krssst]

What are those dark patterns? It's an off button, it works, and it does not get back on. It's the polar opposite of the "maybe later, I'll ask again every week and reset the setting in your back" unfortunate norm that plagues a lot of major proprietary software/service.

[vitally3643]

"You can turn it off" is not in the same category of "would you like to turn this on?" or even "do you want this in the first place?"

Opt-out is not consent, nor is it respect.

Opt-out is a dark pattern, period. Opt-out is forcing something onto users and hoping they don't go out of their way to disable it. It is the same as "maybe later".

[godelski]

  > Opt-out is a dark pattern, period.

No it isn't. All you're doing is making it harder to talk about dark patterns.

You want to know dark patterns?

How about having to physically mail a letter to cancel your news subscription or gym membership?

How about burying your "delete account" button so its only findable by third party websites who keep the correct link up to date. And they still try to convince you to deactivate instead.

How about making you pay to cancel your subscription?

How about the frequent tip begging on online orders or at a fucking fast food location? Especially when the lowest option is 20%!

A default with a clearly labeled section in the settings (that's searchable!) is NOT a dark pattern. It is not tricking you in any way. You may be annoyed by the default, and you have every right to, but by calling this a dark pattern you just make it harder to talk about all the above stuff because you trivialize them. Because at the end of the day, every binary option has to be toggled in one direction or another. Do not conflate these things