[_DeadFred_]

There is so much that goes into 'birthplace lottery' ignoring what created the place, how people/family got to that point, systems that attract people, systems that people created. It's such a non-serious ridiculous term that has zero understanding of outcomes. Can't wait until it dies as a buzzword/signal/whistle.

My family died to come to the USA (from Ireland) and multiple grandmothers arrived very young orphans. My family from other places gave up friends/family/everything they knew to come here. There was a ton of suffering and sacrifice, no 'winning the lottery' for them. They sacrificed to place me where I am, no 'lottery ticket' got me here. Their intention did. My dad's dad worked in a horrible meat packing plant as part of that 'lottery ticket'.

My family sacrificed and clawed their way to get to a point to afford college for my father. They sacrificed to place me where I am, no 'lottery ticket' got me here. Their intention did.

My country fought a war for independence and a civil war to establish the freedoms I enjoy. Both my grandfathers fought/sacrificed hard in WW2 to get to the modern world. No 'lottery' created this world. Their effort/sacrifice did in part though.

All of those things were effort intention work and sacrifice by people. What they created wasn't a 'lottery land'. People have to plant the trees for others to sit under. I didn't win a lottery. Generations of family effort/pain/struggle went into getting me to where I started in life. Generations of people working on building a better society went into it.

Fuck anyone that minimizes everything my family did for me, I know I don't and am grateful every day for the people that chose to sacrifice to get me here. Growing up in Santa Cruz many of my friends who are now very successful had parents who were farm workers. They sacrificed their bodies to create a life for their kids, their kids didn't 'win the lottery'.

[RetroTechie]

When born, you're handed a set of cards that you 'play' life with. Among others:

Genes (affecting gender, skin color, attractiveness & more). Birthplace (affecting citizenship, or 1st-learned language). Wealth of parents and/or that country. Upbringing (including religion). Sisters/brothers or single child. Parents who stayed together or single parent. Etc etc.

For your family: great they worked to get you where you are. And yes that was work not a lottery. No need to minimize their effort.

But for you as recipient of that, it was a lottery ticket. You did not work, or decide what your family did for you. You did not decide what genes you wanted to inherit from them. You did not pick your birthplace.

So the "lottery" part does apply: for each recipient of a set of cards.

[zhoBEENG]

I think you two commenters have both expressed the opposing ideas at the core of so much of the political/worldview divide of the world today.

Position 1: a human is an entity distinct from their family.

Position 2: a family is an entity that exists across generations, and no individual in the family can be abstracted from it.

I don’t think you two, or anyone else, is ever really going to suddenly change their mind on this point. It’s at the foundation of the irreconcilable divide between leftism and conservatism.

Ultimately, since we have plenty of evidence to show that people will just shout past each other when they hit this ideological sticking point, I think a better approach would be to individually answer the question: “Which is a better model for predicting the world?”

[inigyou]

Is that why I chose to be born there?