[Hikikomori]

Disputed? Its pretty clear that US took the money and didn't deliver goods.

The rest is Irans own money sitting in Irans own accounts that sanctions prohibited them from moving or using. Is your reasoning that the US paid Iran with Irans own money because they didn't decide to steal their money? You realize how insane this makes you look?

The deal was a first step in normalizing diplomatic relations with Iran, it wasn't perfect but its a good first step, and as US intelligence testified to congress, they were not working on a nuclear bomb. Or do you disagree with them? The war is a direct result of Trump/Israel starting the war after exiting the deal and ending diplomatic relationships. You see how its a situation entirely created by them?

I don't care about missiles or whatever else you bring up. If it wasn't nuclear programs, building missiles, you and Netanyahu would move the goalpost to something else.

[tristanj]

So you "don't care about missiles." Convenient, because that's the entire argument you've been avoiding this whole time. JCPOA paused enrichment for 15 years and did nothing about the missiles and drones, the exact weapons hitting the every Gulf country, and the second I bring it up you just announce you don't care. And no, that's not a goalpost move, I raised missiles in my very first comment. You're the one who decided the strongest point against you isn't worth answering.

The money thing you keep circling back to doesn't matter either way. Whether it was technically Iran's own frozen assets or not, JCPOA gave Iran tens of billions dollars in liquidity, all of it tied to the JCPOA deal, and this money is what literally paid for the Shahed fleet and the missile stockpiles. JCPOA is how Iran paid for the tens of thousands of Iranian drones, and thousands of missiles. Money is fungible, the IRGC doesn't care where that money came from. It only matters to Iran that it received the money.

And "intelligence said they were complying" proves nothing. Complying with what? Enrichment limits that expire in 2030 and a stupid deal that never even mentioned drones or missiles.

[Hikikomori]

You mean responding to your point about ICBMs that was obviously wrong?

If I were to provide a reasonable argument for you it would be that Iran would have received their money and refused additional diplomatic relations and negotiations and then when the prohibitions expired continued to work on a nuclear bomb. The goalpost was already moved long ago as they moved on to missiles after enrichment was stopped. If it had included missiles they would move on to something else.

But we'll never know because Trump sabotaged the agreement and torched any potential future diplomatic solution, engineering the situation where war seems reasonable to people like you. And its not like Iran wouldn't want to continue selling their oil or continue trading globally.

I keep "circling back" to the money as you keep spouting nonsense about it. Is your argument really that because the US didn't steal their money they "paid" it to Iran? Or would you like to explain yourself? Or are you just misunderstanding what the word paid means?

Its irrelevant that US intelligence agencies said they were complying with JCPOA that could have been extended? Who should we listen to, Netanyahu? Who has been screeching about Iran having a nuke by next week for 4 decades.

[tristanj]

On ICBMs, I acknowledge that error. Iran's nuclear-capable missiles only fly 4,000km, which is IRBM-class. ICBMs require 5,500+km, and Iran isn't there yet.

You build my argument for me: Iran banks the relief, refuses to renegotiate, and resumes the nuclear program when the limits expire in 2030. Then, instead of reasoning about what 2030 actually looks like, you wave it off with "we'll never know." Fine, that's your hypothetical, not your belief. But the expiration on the enrichment restrictions is real. It's a date in the text. Calling the scenario hypothetical doesn't make that date disappear.

And "could have been extended" is carrying enormous weight for you with nothing backing it. There was no extension mechanism in JCPOA. Extending it meant a fresh round of negotiations, and Iran's own officials called the sunsets non-negotiable. So what is Iran's incentive to agree to re-cap enrichment in 2030, after it has already pocketed the relief and the sanctions are long over? "Could have been extended" is something you invented, it was not a feature of the deal. You're defending JCPOA by imagining a better agreement that was never on paper.

So let's actually run your scenario. Assume JCPOA holds. Both sides follow it to the T for the full term. What's is the situation in 2030? Iran has spent fifteen years selling oil freely (with nearly a trillion dollars in cumulative oil revenue) and its frozen assets released and its economy rebuilt. And because the deal said nothing about drones or missiles, it spent those same fifteen years building an enormous arsenal of hundreds of thousands of drones and over ten thousand missiles, several times what it has today. On the nuclear limit, it complied. On drones and missiles, it also complied. Because there was no limit.

And we know what Iran intended to do with that pause, because Iran showed us by what it kept. In 2018 Mossad stole the entire nuclear-weapons archive hidden in a warehouse in Tehran. Iran chose to preserve that archive, it did not destroy it. You don't keep the blueprints for a program you've abandoned. JCPOA failed to end Iran's weapons ambition, it simply kicked the can down the road, leaving a mess for a future president to handle.

Now run the renegotiation you're banking on. It's 2030, the caps have ended, and the US comes to the table. With what? In 2015 the leverage was sanctions relief. In 2030, what does the US have to offer? Iran is flush with cash, it spent the past decade arming, and it has reintegrated itself into the global economy. Iran has no reason to re-cap anything and every reason to walk. "We'll just extend it" assumes you can sell a deal to someone you have no leverage over. You can't. The leverage was already used pursuing JCPOA the first time.

And by 2030 the military option is all but closed too. The Iran of 2030 under JCPOA has a missile and drone arsenal five to ten times the size of what we saw this year. And this year's arsenal was already enough to choke shipping through Hormuz and ensue an oil crisis. An Iran with 5-10x that capability is an Iran with an economic nuke. Iran will have a guaranteed ability to put a chokehold on the global economy, at a far greater scale than the crisis seen today, and the past few months demonstrated Iran is willing to do this. A fully armed Iran has so many missiles and drones that it will overwhelm interceptor defenses even on the first salvo. You witnessed what happened in the 2026 conflict. Interceptors were barely able to keep up, and there was an interceptor shortage crisis. Yet fortunately, in the 2026 conflict, interceptors did not run out, and approximately 80-90% of missiles and drones were intercepted. But an Iran under JCPOA would be able to launch salvos at 5-10x the size, absolutely overwhelming interceptor defenses, and the quantity of destruction would be an order of magnitude greater. There is no defense against that amount of firepower. Striking an Iran sitting on that much firepower and the cost of a military intervention stops being acceptable to anyone.

That's the deal you're defending. And even if JCPOA succeeds, the outcome is still a loss. Follow JCPOA perfectly, and 2030 Iran arrives rich, rearmed, un-leverageable, and legally free to enrich. The cost of any military operation to encourage Iran to comply is astronomically high, making Iran is immune to any conventional military intervention. JCPOA traded away everything the West had to offer: cash, sanctions relief, and oil market access; in exchange for a temporary enrichment pause and a prisoner swap. JCPOA never resolved anything, and simply kicked the can down the road for a future administration to deal with, from a far worse negotiating position.

[Hikikomori]

Seems like the deal were getting now is that Iran is being paid (your words) 25B (many times what Obama paid them), basically the same nuclear restrictions (but no inspections?), nothing about missiles.

Art of the deal, lol.

[spiderfarmer]

Thanks for being a voice of reason. It's pretty clear the person you're responding is repeating talking points they only support because their cult demands that of them.

[tristanj]

Practically everyone defending JCPOA does not understand what the US/Iran actually agreed to, and those who do understand realize the deal was a ticking time bomb towards a nuclear Iran.