[dcreater]

I really hope we stop using the term "Chinese models". It has this air of Negative connotation. It's the equivalent of calling cars Japanese, which people used to do but now is almost entirely meaningless. You just call them Toyota, Honda, Lexus etc.

[esafak]

I don't think "Chinese" is pejorative in this context any more than "American" is. They are one of the two ecosystems. What's wrong with saying "Japanese cars" today?

[kennywinker]

> What's wrong with saying "Japanese cars" today?

Only that it’s a fairly meaningless grouping. When japan first entered the car market in north america there might have been some commonality, but now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have? They’re not even imported a lot of the time.

Given that, it does start to feel tinged with racism if someone insists on grouping things together that don’t really belong together.

As for Chinese LLMs, the term doesn’t “feel” pejorative to me - but i also don’t see a totally clear set of attributes they share. Not all are open-weight. Some are small and can be run on consumer hardware, some are huge. They even have a variety of answers to what happened june 3rd 1989

[Brendinooo]

> now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have?

Typically the answer is "reliability", which is a positive trait, which makes the original callout about negative connotations very odd to me.

[overfeed]

Chinese AI models also share a positive trait: they offer more bang for the buck.

[kube-system]

> When japan first entered the car market in north america there might have been some commonality, but now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have?

They're unique in that they even make a regular passenger car. American manufacturers only make SUVs and a couple of sports/luxury cars. They basically gave up because the Camry/Corolla/Accord/Civic ate their lunch.

The cheapest sedan you can get from an American brand is the Cadillac CT4.

[cheema33]

> but now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have?

The difference is quite big in my opinion. When given the option to pick a Japanese vs American vehicle for about the same price/features, most people will pick the Japanese vehicle. American vehicles have improved over the years, but quality and reliability are generally better for Japanese vehicles even today.

[antonvs]

> but now what characteristics do they share that some american cars don’t have?

Better overall design?

[dcreater]

Sadly there is a pejorative context. The constant us, the free world vs China, the evil Soviets rhetoric from every major news establishment and executive creates that negative view

[fuck_google]

On the other hand the Trump administration has successfully managed to make Chinese seem better than American, so there might not be that much of a pejorative context any more..

[antonvs]

You're right, but the bias in the US certainly persists. "China = bad" is an assumption that many people still make without any self-reflection about the ways in which the US is now at least as bad.

[hootz]

For me, it has a positive connotation! In my experience, Chinese Model means cheaper, but still quite effective model you can use for millions of tokens without burning your entire wallet in seconds. That's why I get more excited over a Chinese model release over American models.

[odiroot]

Japanese cars is actually a positive qualifier. I'd say anything Japanese motor-powered.

[ffsm8]

Maybe he's just from an alternative universe. Chinese model isn't negative either after all.

[unethical_ban]

No thanks.

The term seems to have the connotation of "competitive at 1/10 the price of Claude", so I don't see the problem.

It's not Harbor Freight Chinese (and heck even they have decent stuff sometimes now too).

You don't think people still talk about Japanese cars as a distinction in quality from US or European ones?

[sroerick]

I don't know, I tried using one of the Chinese models and it was VERY quick to scan my entire home dir, so maybe your threat surface is a little different than mine

[fooker]

Models can't scan anything.

They return instructions for you to do something, and you or a script you permit chooses to execute what the model tells you and return the result to the model.

[jdw64]

You are right. I agree.It may seem like a kind of bias, but I hadn't thought of that part. Thank you for pointing out my bias.

[theanonymousone]

"You're absolutely right"?

[jdw64]

"You hit the nail on the head" LOL