[wodenokoto]

That math is completely off.

Those incidentals would not increase your fare 5-8 times. So that some passengers fall into the dark patterns cannot possibly make up for the price difference nor can the price difference to US be the base for your cost savings.

[bojangleslover]

>Those incidentals would not increase your fare 5-8 times Oh I see what you're saying. What I'm saying is, what's the alternative? Another more expensive airline whose online check-in takes 5min instead of 10min? I'm contending that even with the dark patterns, my downside is only 1.5x cost, which is still far, far below a non-budget airline.

>nor can the price difference to US be the base for your cost savings Yeah I agree it's not perfect — but as someone who used to live in the US it's a base for me

[matt-p]

I think that sometimes we think just in terms of the raw price of the incidentals rather than the effect of reducing demand for incidentals.

The main reason Ryanair is so cheap is that they have the fastest turn around time in the industry. This means the utilisation rate is far higher. Part of the reason they're able to turn around so quickly is that they take less hold luggage (so unloading/loading is not holding them up), un-allocated seating means they get to overbook/bin pack better, worth thinking through the second order effects.

[bojangleslover]

After reading their SEC filing I would push back on that slightly.

I think the main reason Ryanair is so cheap is that they get insanely good deals with the airports because they bring so much business to the region. Ie Alicante, a secondary airport, is somewhat tourist-dependent.

Ryanair makes a deal with the municipally-owned airport and says hey, we're going to bring thousands of Brits and Germans to you (with full wallets). The municipality gives a good deal in return.

There's also the 1.5x revenue multiplier from ancillary revenue.

Finally, they only own one type of airplane. Makes the maintenance etc easier.

[rsynnott]

Ryanair haven't had unallocated seating for years (I don't think it's generally allowed anymore); if you don't choose a seat you just get one allocated for you.

[matt-p]

only at check-in, other airlines will give you free seat selection at booking or 72hrs before.

[sceptic123]

Or to look at it another way, they're perfectly happy to let you stand in a queue, outside, on the runway, in the cold/heat, waiting for them to unload/load the plane that has just landed and is often already late.

[rsynnott]

My personal favourite is Ryanair in Brussels airport. Ryanair generally use airstairs, and, as you say, often queueing outside. Brussels airport doesn't allow the use of airstairs. So Ryanair found a solution to be appropriately annoying; you get on the plane via a jet bridge... from an isolated building which has to be reached by bus, and which has no inside waiting space so you still have the opportunity to queue in the rain!

(In fairness, they don't _always_ do this at Brussels airport, sometimes using a normal jet bridge).

[marysol5]

Last time I flew from Brussels was in COVID, and with Ryanair. Was sat in the bar monitoring the app because it was still "No gate" 20 minutes before departure.

Decided to head down and work out why, only to get shouted at by a very angry staff member as they wanted to depart early....

[rsynnott]

Well, I suppose the argument is that Ryanair et al fundamentally changed the European market, and without them the European market would be like the US market, and way more expensive. Which is definitely _plausible_, but kinda counterfactual.

[drnick1]

Flying in the US in not more expensive in my experience, on a per mile basis at least.