[inventor7777]

The comments there are absolutely insane lol, especially now that we know it's a bug.

I did not realize that some people were still so anti-Apple. I'm of course not saying that there's not a small element of truth in many of the comments, but talk about some straw man arguments.

[adrian_b]

It was not a bug, it was just another undocumented Apple feature.

However, when a company sells a device, as opposed to providing it for lease, I do not believe that it has the right to not document any feature of the device that is relevant for its usage, like it should also not have the right to impose any constraints on how the owner should use what has been bought.

Obviously, the owner of any kind of things may not use them to perform illegal acts, but that is a constraint imposed by the valid laws, not by the seller of the things.

Today, far too many companies claim to sell things, but they also attempt to control what the owner may do with them. I avoid to buy such things, but my choices are limited by those who buy them, allowing these policies to be beneficial for the sellers.

[charcircuit]

MacBooks are not designed to boot any OS other than macOS. Just because someone hacks one such that they get custom code running that doesn't mean all of that now becomes in scope for what is relevant for usage. Someone had to go above and beyond to hack the device to get another OS to run.

[streetfighter64]

I mean, do you expect a blender to come with instructions on how to replace the engine?

> I do not believe that it has the right to not document any feature of the device that is relevant for its usage.

This is an extremely broad requirement to place on any and all manufacturers. I agree companies shouldn't intentionally restrict what you can do with your stuff, but on the other hand, if you're trying to rebuild your lawn mower into a motorbike, you can't really be mad that the company didn't provide you with a specification the exact dimensions of the exhaust, can you?

[p0w3n3d]

This is defence mechanism I guess.

People were screwed so many times by so many companies, they have been taught the hard way to behave like that: either make a lot of noise and hate in the first stage, or just agree that some functionality has been removed to milk more money etc.

[sergeykish]

Apple transformed handheld computing into walled garden, brainwashed installation into "sideloading". Apple software update made Apple laptops to fail booting Linux.

"Concerned people are insane anti-Apple without any solid arguments, lol"

[inventor7777]

Not how I'm intending to come off as. I am more specifically mentioning the comments that say stuff like "Apple laptops are overpriced pieces of junk" but without thinking of those whose workflows would be impacted very negatively by moving to more open platforms (not because of the platform, but I mean because of hardware)

It's like they are looking at a specific application, finding that Macs are bad at it, and declaring it crap in every way, which isn't true.

[odiroot]

Maybe because you can just buy a nice ThinkPad, slap any distro on and be done with it. Without all this hassle.

[inventor7777]

That's true, if you want a Linux laptop. However, no ThinkPad at this moment can come close to the horsepower + battery life in a modern Mac. Not saying Apple is excused because of that, just an observation.

[AtlasBarfed]

I did not realize all the tech companies had completely changed their behaviors to be granted the benefit of the doubt.

Sure they don't do EVERYTHING we think they do, but they do so much, and so much more we DON'T know about...

Anyway, Apple could help the Linux team in months to close huge amounts of functionality gaps but ... they don't.

[inventor7777]

I am not (purposefully) granting them the benefit of the doubt.

In my comment I simply noted that the comments there are extremely anti-Apple yet without any solid arguments behind them, and I also noted that the whole thing is just because of an APFS flag which could be fixed from Asahi's side. The main reason I made the comment is because I am shocked at how poorly backed the arguments are.

As for Apple not helping the Linux team, why would they, or any major OEM? Apple is perfectly happy with https://github.com/apple/container

[bigyabai]

When Microsoft futzes with the MBR and locks out Linux users, we complain. When Apple futzes with the APFS partition flags, we complain. It's not that hard to understand.

> why would they, or any major OEM?

Apple Silicon doesn't expose any obvious ACPI-equivalent power management interface. Apple could very easily document that hardware without exposing proprietary devicetree drivers, but someone internally must love watching Asahi users suffer through cpuidle. There isn't likely to be advanced power management drivers for Apple Silicon on Linux within this decade.

At the very least, I think it's fair to expect Apple to document breaking iBoot changes. They don't have to, but they feed a dog's dinner to their power users when they don't.

[AKSF_Ackermann]

> There isn't likely to be advanced power management drivers for Apple Silicon on Linux within this decade.

Amazing levels of confidence, when per Asahi's last progress report, one exists already.

[bigyabai]

You should read the report, it basically repeats what I just said:

> The power management architecture on this platform is incredibly complex, and there are a lot of moving parts involved in making it all work. There is Power Manager (PMGR), which is responsible for the SoC’s power domains, but there is also the Power Management Processor (PMP), which does… stuff?

> The actual low-level details of how power is managed across the SoC are quite opaque. [...] PMP will not read these reports if it is not booted, and certain power management functionality will not work. We are not sure exactly what it does with this information, but it likely involves controlling Apple Fabric power and clocking, among other things.

> There is obviously still work to be done to reach macOS levels of idle and suspend time

I still do not think that we will get advanced power management equivalent to ACPI within this decade, unless Apple starts documenting stuff. It took Asahi six years to replace cpuidle on M1, we're going to be here for a while.