[cmrdporcupine]

There is not enough noise about this bill. It's horrific.

If you're Canadian, call your MP and raise a stink. The Liberals need to be shown quite explicitly by people in our profession how this will harm our industry, in addition to harming the privacy rights of our citizens; and it seems like conservatives are not planning on opposing this bill (just want it split in half) and the NDP is the only party raising real opposition?!

[Fogest]

Sadly spying on citizens is pretty bipartisan for most governments around the world. It seems hard to actually stop this kind of stuff. I've signed this petition which I'm sure will do absolutely nothing, but it feels like there isn't much else I can do. I didn't even get a confirmation email with the link I need to click after signing this petition, so I guess my signature is null and void. I've lost faith in our government doing anything to benefit the people.

[roter]

The confirmation email takes a few minutes.

[Fogest]

Yeah it's already been 10 minutes, but they likely got their email server on some hamster somewhere, so I probably just gotta wait longer for it.

[kps]

I got it in seconds, now.

[cmrdporcupine]

I had it take that long before for petitions I've signed. It will come.

[Fogest]

Good to know, as past ones I've signed only have taken a couple minutes. Worst case I'm keeping the petition opened and will sign up again tonight. I'll probably also throw a little message together as well to send to my MP tonight. I feel like that's about all I can do to make my voice heard about these matters.

[dismalaf]

The Liberals have been elected 4 times in a row. They don't even hide the fact they're hostile to the needs and cares of Canadian citizens since we're the idiots who keep electing them. CBC pushes some propaganda about how this'll protect the kids, some brain-dead liberals will keep repeating it, Canada will just continue its path to irrelevancy...

[rhines]

The system is pretty fucked. You have the liberals (who are conservatives), the conservatives (who are increasingly taking inspiration from America but have always been even further right than the liberals), and the NDP who are unfortunately now rather irrelevant and also have a tendency to focus too much on identity politics.

If Trudeau had actually pushed for election reform like he'd promised to, maybe we'd be in a better place. But people forgave him for that because he made weed legal...

[cmrdporcupine]

You know the conservatives are supporting this bill as well... right?

And when Harper was in power they were trying to push something similar?

And that the petition linked here is an NDP petition?

Partisan grandstanding won't fix the issue. A mobilized public will.

[EmbarrassedHelp]

Both the conservatives and the NDP have been fighting against Bill C-22.

[0x696C6961]

That's how it's always gone. The people in power push it and the opposition fights it "for the people".

[cmrdporcupine]

Conservatives want it amended. NDP wants it killed.

[mhurron]

And how much of the conservatives issue with it are because the Liberal party put it forward. They have absolutely been bringing similar bills when they have control of the government.

[alexandre_m]

> You know the conservatives are supporting this bill as well... right?

That is not true at all.

https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/stop-online-government-surve...

[cmrdporcupine]

Fair enough, this was not the case when I looked last week. They were "concerned" but had not posted anything in opposition.

And when I looked this morning all I found was they'd asked it to be split into two bills. Implying they want to support some but not all. Which is worrisome.

EDIT: wait, the thing linked here by you only says they want to amend it. That's a far cry from killing the bill. So, no, they're not opposed. The want to split and amend it.

[alephnerd]

> The Liberals need to be shown quite explicitly by people in our profession how this will harm our industry...

It will not hurt American FDI nor VC within in the Canadian tech industry, which represents the bulk of capital within the Canadian tech scene. We are fine operating in China, Israel, India, Brazil, the UK, SK, Taiwan, and Japan who have similarly onerous requirements.

> There is not enough noise about this bill...

The Freedom Convoy which was fueled by COVID disinfo, as well as active foreign interference in Canadian elections [0] highlights the need for Canada to protect itself.

Look at how the UK has devolved into near yearly race riots often instigated by foreign actors over social media [1]. Canada has the same weaknesses and a hard state response is required.

Canada doesn't have free speech laws like we do in the US, but even in the US you "cannot yet fire in a crowded theatre".

Edit: can't reply

> Yep. And that is a very good thing. Hate speech is illegal here

I agree.

And thus, how can you identify where hate speech is originating when platforms will not cooperate with law enforcement without C22?

Hate speech laws are useless if you cannot identify where said hate speech is originating from.

[0] - https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corpo...

[1] - https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/comme...

[int_19h]

> but even in the US you "cannot yet fire in a crowded theatre".

You should look up the origin of that phrase...

[hodder]

You cannot be serious. The Freedom convoy may have been misinformed but the government response was an absolute disaster and the courts have agreed.

[cmrdporcupine]

"Misinformed" is a strange word for what was clearly an attempt at a coup, with massive amounts of foreign money involved?

The RCMP and other agencies and the province were not doing their job. I was not a fan of Trudeau, but I don't really know what they could have done to resolve the situation.

(And that is in fact one of the reasons I'm suspicious and critical of this bill. I don't think giving law enforcement agencies additional powers will resolve anything, as when push comes to shove they are often full of people on the same side as the malevolent forces that sibling / parent commenter is referring to)

[tw85]

You're just piling lie on lie at this point.

A coup attempt with no weapons and no violence. How does that work exactly? The foreign money angle has been debunked by none other than the RCMP and CSIS. Nice CBC talking point though.

The freedom convoy has absolutely correct that the jab mandates and lockdowns were far beyond their sell by date, as the issue had been heavily politicized for the sake of Trudeau trying to secure a majority.

[cmrdporcupine]

There were both weapons and violence. They had stashes weapons at two US border crossings -- which they were blocking -- and got away with it. There were violence and vandalism on the streets of Ottawa.

Tell me what would happen if people with arms were blocking the border crossing on the US side? They wouldn't be screaming about being oppressed, because DHS would have just shot them or sent them to Guantanamo.

Look, I'm not going to argue with you about it and re-prosecute this. You're over in some echo chamber blathering about the CBC and "jabs", which to me is just bonkers.

They made life hell for the people of Ottawa for weeks, and the shit they were protesting about was barely even the business of the federal government. They should have knocked on Doug Ford's door, not walked around blaring horns for weeks and the only outcome they really wanted was to get the government to step down. The leadership were professional far right agitators that had led protests on entirely different issues before ("yellow vests" lol) and found a hook for suckers to join them again.

BTW aren't I supposed to have dropped dead from a blood clot at this point? Or been infertile or something? Keep waiting for that to happen.

Whatever, I hated Trudeau ... until all you guys started letting him live rent free in your heads while you smoked the weed he legalized for you. Now I'm glad he's getting some with Katy Perry, it's kinda cute.

[giantg2]

This is the first I've heard that called a coup. Was there and actual overthrow attempt?

[cmrdporcupine]

It was clearly communicated by their leaders that they weren't leaving the streets until the government resigned (or "all pandemic measures dropped", which the fed gov't had no power to do as the majority were either provincial mandates or were forced on us by the US gov't)

Also the exact same set of people (and I mean, literally, look up the names of the leaders) tried almost exactly the same thing a few years earlier around carbon tax and environmental issues. But the government was stronger then and Canadians more united.

And yes, they had massive and well documented funding from American conservative lobby groups, in both instances.

[hylaride]

That's not a coup. That's an illegal protest. They were all a bunch of self-centred idiots, but let's not give them credit for something that it wasn't.

[dismalaf]

A coup d'état is when you forcibly overthrow a government AND install someone else illegally (usually yourselves). Asking the current government to resign isn't a coup by any definition.

[xp84]

> near yearly race riots often instigated by foreign actors over social media

You're right that it's foreign actors starting that trouble, but rather than the ones on Twitter, I'd blame the ones who have been showing up in person, raping girls and knifing people in the face.

[EmbarrassedHelp]

That is a lie. None of those countries other than maybe China have laws requiring encryption backdoors.

Suspicionless bulk metadata retention is also illegal in the EU, and no such law existing in many of those other democracies you listed.

[anamax]

> even in the US you "cannot yet fire in a crowded theatre".

Actually, you can yell "fire" if there is a fire.

Note that the "can't yell fire" quote comes from a decision involving folks who were distributing pamphlets opposing the WWI draft. It was written by Holmes, who also wrote "three generations of idiots are enough" to justify a eugenics law, in a case that didn't involve any idiots.

Moreover, the "fire" decision was overturned by Brandenberg v Ohio.

[cmrdporcupine]

Two things can be true at the same time.

That you're right about "Freedom" Convoy (and "Alberta" seppies) etc.

And that this a bad and harmful bill.

Given CSIS has plenty of powers already and hasn't done anything to deal with the actions far right American (and domestic) groups, I don't see why I would trust them with my or my family's chat histories or why I should have to live without Signal or ProtonMail, etc. as product offerings in my country.

[hodder]

Voting for separation (as oppose to actually separating) is absolutely in the best interest of most Albertans.

[cmrdporcupine]

Oh. I see. Now I regret engaging with you at all on the other comment.

My SIN begins with a 6 and my whole family is still there, and you're wrong as hell, and the majority of Albertans agree with me and Smith would never have been elected if she'd run on this.

[alephnerd]

> Given CSIS has plenty of powers already...

> hasn't done anything to deal with the actions far right American (and domestic) groups...

They don't. They are one of the weaker intel agencies amongst the five eyes (NZ is weakest) due to overlapping responsibilities and jurisdictions with the RCMP and Provincial law enforcement. And there are active issues with certain provincial LE agencies and foreign interference.

[realo]

"Canada doesn't have the free speech laws like we do in the US..."

Yep. And that is a very good thing. Hate speech is illegal here.