[Dylan16807]

"defined their product category" means it used to be outstanding, not that it currently is outstanding.

"among the most popular" doesn't need either of those to be true.

[stouset]

As a concrete example, Windows defined the product category. And it is still the most popular desktop operating system in the world by far.

Few here would argue that it’s an outstanding product.

[pigeons]

More than plenty of people (including me) would argue that Windows is an awful product, but a quite significant number of people (maybe even including me) would argue that its an outstanding product.

[coldtea]

>but a quite significant number of people (maybe even including me) would argue that its an outstanding product.

Are those people in the room with us now?

[wiseowise]

I hate Windows with passion and can still acknowledge that it is an outstanding product.