[kristjansson]

Obscuring core logic is the most egregious part of most agent frameworks. One needs a clear view of what, exactly, is being sent to the underlying language model, and what's coming back. Everything in an 'agentic' application is realized as a sequence of tokens or a call to a provider eventually. It should be clear and obvious from ~all layers of the app what that's going to look like.

[cpard]

Most framework vendors don’t have an incentive to make things less obscure. The agent framework is free/open source and they make money primarily from selling observability products for agents. Even if they don’t intentionally obscure things, they just don’t have the motivation to optimize that part.

[pjmlp]

Unfortunately agent orchestration frameworks feels like the second coming of BEPL, and the incentives are all wrong.

[throw1234567891]

Have a look at pi.

[tomrod]

Whst about pi do you like?

[peterbell_nyc]

Pi is a nice multi-agent wrapper. I use it to wrap my OpenAI max plan calls and my API calls. It takes care of some of the agent plumbing - still need sandbox, orchestrator, compounding, context, evals, etc but it's a nice component.

[chuckadams]

Any particular plugins you'd recommend? For orchestration I gave pi-subagents a try, and didn't care for it, ended up with hung agents sticking around forever and I wasn't even doing anything terribly fancy. Claude's subagent control is annoying and clumsy, but it works.

[krawczstef]

FYI - Burr is designed with recursion in mind, i.e. the ability to kick off Burr within Burr. So you could have an action that is managing several Burr subgraphs... Or you write your own management layer here.