[alephnerd]

1. Both the US and the UK are large countries with significant federalism and devolved powers. I think subnational HDI is a better metric [0] instead of GDP per Capita.

Once you remove the outliers that are London and the Southeast (there isn't a similar subnational comparison that can be made within the US), developmental indicators between much of the US and the UK are the same.

2. After seeing the riots in Belfast last night where rioters specifically targeted and burned the homes of Black residents [1], I'd be inclined to agree that the United Kingdom does have some hallmarks of Mississippi, and in some sense is worse. We haven't had targeted race riots in the US for decades. The UK has had 3 in the last year.

[0] - https://globaldatalab.org/shdi/table/shdi/USA+GBR/?levels=1+...

[1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cr47x99k5n6t?post=asset%3Ab5f8...

[roryirvine]

Not excusing the rioters in any way (especially since friends and family living in that part of Belfast are directly affected by it), but it's fair to say that a US citizen bears a great deal of responsibility for incitement.

(It's probably also unwise to view it as being racist in the American sense - instead, there's a complex set of overlapping bigotries at play. None of them are good, but it's not simply based on skin colour. Musk and his extremist friends don't understand it either, but clearly don't give a fuck.)

[alephnerd]

Not denying Elon Musk (who is an English South African immigrant btw) role and I gladly accept American far-right involvement, but there was clear organization at the local level, which is unsurprising given NI's history of paramilitaries.

It feels like just about every Brit and NIer on HN has been trying to absolve responsibility for what has become a common occurrence in the British Isles now. that to deny and absolve the very real local level organization that occurred is what irks me.

The reality is British rightwingers like Steve Hinton and Paul Marshall have also been influencing American politics just like American rightwingers have in the UK. And the UK (and Europe in general) was always a much shittier and racist experience for a BAME like me versus the US.

> It's probably also unwise to view it as being racist in the American sense

It definetly is. I have extended family who are BAME in the UK and Scandinavia, and were around during the old school BNP wave. None of this shit has changed, and acting "holier than thou" pisses us off.

[theghostboi]

Well the thing is the US more or less has a larger diaspora population that became integrated and successful and actually had good social mobility regardless of background. The UK has a lot of areas where mobility has been rather difficult.

You look at every diaspora group and they have some level of success in reaching some good levels in business, politics, and culture. Even for groups that only arrived around 50 years ago they managed to become so ingrained into their communities that they pretty much can get respect.

[alephnerd]

That does not justify a pogrom and collective punishment.

And if you have true conviction in your beliefs you should use your primary HN account instead of a throwaway.

[dofm]

Including that middle-aged white supremacist American citizens with money or power like Musk and Vance are actively using their media mouthpieces to stir the pot.

I mean, if the US argument is, as a friend, things are not working out well and they hope for better, that's one thing.

But actually prominent Americans are agitating for violence and backing extreme right-wing parties like Restore. It's appalling and it goes beyond unfriendliness to hostility.

(And do you really need targeted race riots when you can just sign up as police and kill Black people with impunity?)