[grahar64]

"The question was never whether this would involve costs"

Brexit was sold as being positive for the economy. The proponents drove a bus around saying they would get 350 million back. It was largely advertised as a net positive for the economy

[pyeri]

It was totally a rigged referendum, that bus hoarding propaganda somehow worked and the masses fell for the lies. But a great number didn't and it was barely lost by a few percentage points. David Cameron should have stayed and battled it out instead of resigning.

[kayo_20211030]

David Cameron may be the biggest idiot in almost 300 years of British Prime Ministers, and there's been a few beauties. He really could have done a better job with the whole referendum business. Up/Down only. No "by a majority of...". No requirement for a second referendum on the terms of the disengagement agreement. Asking him to stay around would have been like asking the driver that drove you over the cliff to drive you home. And then there was that other beauty, Boris!

[rich_sasha]

The other misses opportunity was to require a majority from all the UK's constituent countries.

One argument against Scottish independence vote just 2 (!) years prior was that Scotland would lose membership in the EU. And they really like this one it seems, with 62% voting to remain.

But since they're only 8% of the population and apparently don't count, they instead got Brexited against their will. Similar with Northern Ireland and, I suppose, Good Friday agreement.

Wales voted to leave, for some reason. Maybe they hoped one of the weekly hospital builds would happen there.

[tim333]

I think it should have been at least a two stage process. First vote do you want to leave? Second vote after figuring out the details of hard/soft etc. go back to the voters with - so this is the deal, do you want it? The second likely would have been a no.

[ndsipa_pomu]

Surely Liz Truss has to be the worst example of a Prime Minister? Known as the Iron Weather Vane (c.f. Thatcher's Iron Lady) and she lasted less time than a lettuce.

[mike_hearn]

The bus was correct. The NHS budget has gone up by more than £350M since then even if you ignore the huge COVID boosts.

[tim333]

Not from money saved by leaving though.

[mike_hearn]

Yes, from money saved by leaving. EU membership cost would have been a fair bit higher than £350M/week by now as it's GDP indexed, even.

Or what are you trying to argue here? You expected tax pounds to have colours, that there was some separate bank account labelled "EU funds"?

[tim333]

> various economic analyses estimate that the broader, ongoing cost of Brexit to the UK economy ranges between £100 billion and £140 billion due to reduced trade and investment

>Britain's national debt is growing at a faster pace than any country in the world except Botswana,

[mike_hearn]

The various economic analyses are wrong, please see my other comments in this thread about that.

The national debt is certainly very bad, but that's because the country elected a very left wing government. It's not related to Brexit.

[warumdarum]

Brexit was a "stop migration by getting out of europe" thing. That was how it was sold, that was how it was ordered. That was not how it was delivered. This is also why the same people get the same votes against the boats again. If a democratic system can not offer and deliver what the people want - the people will vote for system dismantling till they get it.

[oliwarner]

It was not sold on one thing.

Immigration was definitely a factor, but there were a lot of people —despite strong expert opposition— saying it would be an economic golden age. Being able to trade with everyone on our own terms. Being free our exporters of red tape while maintaining our existing trade and supply routes.

Of course this was wrong. 49% of the country was screaming it was wrong. But there were enough people swayed on moderate promises that things could be better.

[JojoFatsani]

It was sold as that but it was heavily xenophobia-coded

[dudul]

This is incorrect, the official Vote Leave campaign focused very heavily on immigration and overall sovereignty. Remain was the campaign highlighting risks for the economy.

Of course the argument was made re: EU contributions staying "home" to be allocated domestically, but the economy was always shrugged away as a "necessary unknown to take back control"

[kibibu]

You're saying the bus didn't exist?

[dudul]

Reading is hard I guess. I'm saying Brexit was not sold as being positive for the economy. Yes the bus probably existed, and as I said, the argument was made that the excess in EU contribution would be spent domestically instead. But improving the economy was not the main argument of the Leave. They always mostly acknowledged that it would be a bit unknown, but whatever happened would be worth it if it meant more sovereignty.

[milch]

Look at the very first point on the archived vote leave page: https://web.archive.org/web/20160620214900/http://www.votele...

Sure, you could argue that they didn't mean it would be positive for the economy to save that money, but "we will save 350M/week" is what's on the buses and their website. Even if we assume the average voter clicks through here and reads everything point by point, or goes onto the website in the first place rather than by the headline, it is at the very least heavily implied... Otherwise what is the argument?

[dudul]

OK, so I'm right. They are specifically talking about the contribution to the EU budget that would remain at home. They did not talk about the economy as a whole. There is no "heavily implied".

Other replies are hilarious, focusing on "muh! The BUS!!!". I don't care about the bus, I'm focusing on the broader point. "The economy" was never at the forefront of the arguments put forward by Leave.

[slater]

"the bus probably existed" wtf... there are photos of it, which were plastered all over media at the time. there's no "probably" about it

[kibibu]

Here's Nigel Farage, at 6:53 AM the morning after Brexit passed, saying the claim on the bus was a "mistake" and they were never going to send that money to NHS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSK0vVL2pg8

[munksbeer]

>Reading is hard I guess. I'm saying Brexit was not sold as being positive for the economy.

This is a lie. Provably so. Exhibit the other post replying to you.

But this is not unexpected, the entire brexit campaign was one lie after another, and the supporters lied about it continually too.

For much hilarity, read this. I still laugh each time:

https://www.reaction.life/p/britain-looks-like-brexit

[phs318u]

> Yes the bus probably existed

“Probably”. Wow. Talk about self delusion and historical revisionism. You can’t bring yourself to admit the obvious reality that the Brexiteers were - to a man - self-serving, mendacious, con artists.