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by b3kart 2 days ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

Probably tongue-in-cheek, but UK 18th, US joint 34th with Poland

5 comments

> published by the British media company the Economist Group

Haha, it's literally the first sentence of the Wikipedia page. That's fucking funny. Try again.

Why is it funny? You think British media can’t be critical of the British government? They are famously merciless.

Also, the economist is majority foreign owned, so try doing more than 1 second of research, or be more civil, or ideally both.

The Economist is very much part of the establishment, whoever they are owned by. It is not surprising that they would want to play down any idea that the UK is less “democratic”. Furthermore, The Economist is one of the main mouthpieces of British capitalism, and so their definition of “democracy” is going to be very much of the liberal, capital-friendly kind, which is not completely incompatible with some authoritarian tendencies.
The ranking isn’t published by the newspaper - it’s by the research and insights B2B company of the overall group. Regardless of what assumptions you have about the newspaper (elite, yes, but I’m unclear on why you think fierce liberalism is likely to mean they don’t really value democracy), the B2B unit sells data - they’re as likely to skew this ranking as they are at which countries are better at rail infrastructure. Perhaps their definition of democracy is indeed flawed though - no need to speculate, go read their methodology.
To be fair, BBC has hardly been that critical in the British governments' complicity in the genocide in Gaza.

And their headlines covering Israeli atrocities (not even their own governments), is super passive.

But the parent point was that no British media could be critical of government policy. Picking an example that isn’t, on one area, doesn’t prove their point.

[Edit] Granted though, the bbc isn’t merciless - that’s more the newspapers

Are the sibling comments astroturfed? This seems like such a bizarre thing to be talking about in relation to an Anthropic model release. As someone from the UK, I don't feel like I'm living in an authoritarian country. And yet most of the sibling comments are insinuating that I am. Weird.
I'm sure there are people in Russia, China, ... who don't feel like they're living in an authoritarian country.
It's true (from a perception perspective):

China soars in democratic perception ranking as US, Israel plummet: Poll

https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perc...

Maybe the rankings arent accurate.
It's a poll.
If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information.
> If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information.

Uh... you are making his point. People from way more authoritarian countries don't necessarily feel like they are living in an authoritarian country. Therefore whether or not it "feels" like you are living in one isn't a reliable measure.

Trivially true I suppose, but it doesn’t make my point irrelevant - do you think Britain is equivalent to China and Russia? If everyone does but us then yes my goodness they’ve done a good job controlling us, but that seems far fetched.
HN is extremely pro free speech and the UK has recently decided to engage in censorship. Part of the issue users here reckon with is the recency. Unlike many authoritarian countries that seem hopeless with regards to free speech the UKs censorship is a recent development that many think can still be undone through political action. Similar to takes on why Israel is being protested when places like sudan arent.
Indeed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce83pj1ggmeo

In the uk you can very much be imprisoned for "hate speech", which in my view is a form of censorship.

This has passed me by - can you give me some specific examples?

I personally don't feel limited in my speech, but I'm willing to accept that I may be wrong

Nobody I know in real life is talking about censorship or free speech in the UK

My dear friend, please start with the online safety act, and continue with the recent developments regarding age verification and/or device scanning on all operating systems to check for nudity. No, nobody is talking about it here, but we should be.
"Nobody I know is talking about censorship" is a certified HN banger.
I don't know, I would expect it to come up in the pub or something if people were concerned about it, it's not like we have the thought police here
Sounds like the people around you don't care about the things that is actually eroding free speech.

Read about Dr Aladwan - an NHS doctor - who has barred from practising because of her comments on Israel. Read the common articles about her (BBC etc), and then go actually read her tweets. Common BS of conflating criticism of a government (Israel) with antisemitism.

Also, this article may be of interest:

China soars in democratic perception ranking as US, Israel plummet: Poll

https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perc...

Hey man, fellow Brit here. The American view on certain aspects of British life is insane. I've lived in not one but two places that have been called Muslim no-go zones in American media. My main memory of living near the east London mosque is an elderly Muslim trying to offer my his seat on the bus (I was on crutches) while two drunk gammons looked on gormlessly.

On the other hand, it is quite alarming that I can no longer say I support all non violent protests against the genocide in Palestine because that would include the group Palestine Action. It's amazing that supporting them openly is essentially equivalent to supporting Al Qaeda.

The UK has a censorship bureau, ofcom. The example that comes up most here is 4chan, which the UK is currently trying to ban because they refuse to do age verification. If you read the threads here you will see other stories. One that sticks out to me is someone who was talking about their struggles running a forum about depression. They live in canada and were contacted by ofcom demanding the forum add age verification, cant totally remember the reason but it was something about kids being able to access talk about depression. Ofcom said that if he doesnt add age verification to his forum he will be arrested if he ever enters the UK. He even blocked uk IPs but they said that wasnt enough. We can quibble about whether age verification is a form of censorship, I think it clearly is, if only because it is a large regulatory hurdle that stops people from hosting forums because its too much regulatory work.

The UK also has a very broad definition of hate speech that many users here detest.

Makes sense, thank you. I am opposed to the age verification laws that we have introduced recently.
> Nobody I know in real life is talking about censorship or free speech in the UK

Yeah because free speech has never really been a core value in the UK

They’re talking about British hate speech laws. They think other countries have universal free speech and they absolutely do not, but for some reason they think Britain goes too far. Although “think” is probably too generous - they’re parroting talking points.
The downvoters are welcome to offer actual counterarguments.
>HN is extremely pro free speech

It is most definitively not, at least in the 10ish year's I've lurked.

It is "pro free speech" in the sense Elon Musk is a "free speech absolutist": in pretty much the diametrically opposed meaning of the phrase.

> HN is extremely pro free speech

They like to think so. But if someone makes a comment that goes against the groupthink here, they will get downvoted, flagged, and shadow-banned.

The UK has very recently[1] announced a new push for client side scanning by messaging providers which is both very likely to be unpopular and known here, so once one person cracks the joke, others are going to want to comment. Don’t think that requires astroturfing.

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jun/08/starmer-t...

It's just people who use "For You" algorithm on X.
Neither do people living in China
Really shocked Poland is that low, especially just next to USA.
Why would you be? The fully corrupt, fear-mongering party that idolized Orban's Hungary and tried to copy his tactics, including taking over the courts (resulting in EU sanctions) and turning the state media into a propaganda machine, only recently lost the elections. And not a full term later, the polls favour them again, combined with a meteoric rise of even worse anti-EU fascists who they'll happily join forces with to take over in 2027.

I get you might not hear this stuff if you're not in EU or Poland itself, but seriously, just check the latest polling and history of PiS rule. It would take over a decade to event attempt to undo the damage that has been done to the rule of law in Poland, and the currently ruling "anti-PiS" coalition only had a short while (in which they failed to do anything) before getting neutered by the populace electing their own Trump-like buffoon that proceeds to veto everything the ruling coalition tries to pass. For added damage, the 3rd and 4th leading candidates (with combined 20% support) were the aforementioned fascists. Here's one [0]. Consider the wiki article a fraction of the cesspool he regularly produces.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Braun

Placing Poland so far below the UK is a joke understandable to anyone who has spent at least a few weeks in both countries.
> The Democracy Index published by the British media company

We decided that we aren't one of those authoritarian countries.

Ah, yes, the Economist, a famously government-controlled media outlet.
I have absolutely no clue what the US nor Poland's rank has to do with anything.
It shows the irony of trolling the UK's "authoritarianism" in a thread on a release of a model by a US company, given the US is arguably _more_ authoritarian. (Poland is more of a fun tidbit, as they are indeed tied in the Economist's index.)