[TrappedInCorner]

I migrated with my parents at 3 years old to a neighboring EU country from another EU country. I agree with you strongly.

As a migrant myself, I've become very critical about immigration in recent years. I've come to realize just how naive we europeans had become. Also just how penalized the idea of 'I want my country to maintain its culture, and I want my countrymen to look like me, smell like me and behave like me' had become, like it was some sort of a terrible sin to let anyone know you think like this. Thankfully we are waking up to our horrible reality and starting to take measures to fix the problem. Hopefully it is not too late.

Although understandable from a single family or individual perspective, migrating from one EU country to another EU country to escape problems is futile, and you should really try to help fix the country your in, according to what the natives want.

[garte]

This does not make sense. How can you differentiate between "good" migrants (apparently you yourself) and "bad" ones? Shouldn't you remove yourself because you're a migrant to increase the quality of life for the "natives"?

[elektrontamer]

It makes perfect sense. Differentiating between a good and bad ones is the easiest thing ever.

1. Are they a net benefit to the country's finances? Do they pay more than enough taxes to cover the public services they use and then some. Or are they just a leech on the welfare system and a burden to society in general.

2. Do they integrate well into the society? Do they commit crimes?

3. To whom is their allegeince? The society they live in or the one back home? Do they promote the interests of their own ethnic group at the expense of the natives?

The first two are already available to state, tax, crime, welfare records. The third can be found out with a simple investigation.

[garte]

1. As long as these are measured they are not a problem: Switzerland - and most of the EU countries - do simply not have a problem with poor people leeching the welfare systems, but rich people not paying their share: tax evasion by the rich is a problem going into the billions while social security fraud is around millions.

2. That's also measurable by crime stats and Switzerland is really tough in re-patriating people that broke the law.

3. That is something you cannot measure and where you cannot guarantee freedom or fairness in a society. What if I were to deem you too stupid to vote because you're advocating for a fascist mindset that might overthrow the democratic fundamentals? You wouldn't want that, I suppose.

So there's nothing to be done that's not already been done.

[TrappedInCorner]

And to the fallacy of my argument you are hinting at, it truly is one of the difficulties. I think as a migrant your contribution should be to assimilate and assist with the country's interests. You must not be a freeloader. If the country wants to get rid of migrants, then thats it, they will stamp you out. Welcome to reality. In the meanwhile I will do my best, like everyone else should, to be a 'good migrant', which usually means: learn the language, treat people with respect, don't commit crimes, do not not abuse the welfare system, learn the cultural norms, take part in cultural activities and list goes on.

[garte]

From a logical standpoint there really is only one rational step you can take: you have to leave because you are a migrant.

And that's exactly where all of this thinking falls apart: in an equal, democratic society no group should be able to decide who's a good or a bad citizen. There's only the laws of the country that should count and everyone has to obey.

You should soften up your idea of "migration" because there is no inane biological quality in humans that make them good or bad.

99% of "immigration problems" are because of poverty and inequality (both too little or too much money can influence behaviour) and not because of some sort of gene that makes human behave badly.

[elektrontamer]

> 99% of "immigration problems" are because of poverty and inequality

That's just made up claim there's no evidence to support this. Even if it were true it's not the taxpayers responsibility to import all the degenerate murderers and rapists from all over the world in the hopes of civilizing them.

Why should someone from a developed country agree to give up their safety and wealth to run this ridiculous and deadly experiment?

[garte]

> Even if it were true it's not the taxpayers responsibility to import all the degenerate murderers and rapists from all over the world in the hopes of civilizing them.

That's just not how any of this works and I think you know it. You're just being obtuse, although I don't know why.

[TrappedInCorner]

No. I have to leave when they decide I have to leave. Generally migrants are not a problem, unless they cause a lot of problems (UK), or there are way too many of them even if they were so called good migrants (again UK). Even some of the most anti-immigration political parties in my country (ethno-fascist actually, not my opinion, it is their policy) are not saying 100% no to migrants, but they have to check a LOT of marks to be here.

I have to say, that not every country is the same. United States from an outsider perspective seems like you could come from anywhere and look like anyone, as long as you pleadge your allegiance to the flag and become and 'American' you will be accepted. This is probably because US has a short history, and it wasnt too long ago when it was literally all migrants.

[toasty228]

Start by kicking out criminals and people who entered illegally and 90% of the "anti immigration" people will be perfectly happy. We don't even apply the laws that already exist, it really is that simple

[nailer]

> This does not make sense. How can you differentiate between "good" migrants (apparently you yourself) and "bad" ones?

Crime statistics. https://www.ft.dk/samling/20171/almdel/uui/spm/127/svar/1449...

[TrappedInCorner]

What constitutes a good migrant is up to the natives and the government of a country to decide. At the end of the day it doesnt matter what how good of a migrant I think I am. Any day the native population can turn very hostile and ram any migrant out of the country for any reason, be it crime record, ethnicity or something else.