[agnishom]

The response to "Where's Erica?" should not be to put a tracking wristband on Erica. Perhaps you won't know where Erica is. Perhaps she is doing something dangerous. The oblivion and ambiguity are part of what constitutes acknowledging Erica's personhood.

[jmorenoamor]

This is crucial, and at the same time difficult now that I am a parent. Part of my childhood was stretching limits, going past that street because there was a cool shop or place I wanted to see, returning home one or two hours later that I should have because I was having fun.

Now I try to avoid the temptation of control, I have the tools and the skills to easily do it, and it's a daily struggle to say "let them go"

[tw04]

That has nothing to do with tracking though. Just because I can see my kid went out of the neighborhood without permission doesn't mean I need to punish them for it or even tell them I noticed.

Furthermore, my parents couldn’t track me, but I guarantee if I came home 2 hours later than I said I would I was getting grounded unless I had a REALLY good excuse.

[_AzMoo]

Perhaps this is true if Erica is 16, but if Erica is 10 then I would like to be notified if she doesn't make it to school safely.

[agnishom]

I get how it can feel horrifying, but I don't think we should make this decision based on gut-reactions.

Bad things can and do happen to children, but nearly not as much to warrant tracking them. Even if it were, I'd be reluctant to say that this is okay

[bko]

Who are you to say what is okay? She's not your child.

Yes its unlikely something bad would happen. It's also unlikely that you would get into a life threatening car accident. But you still wear a seatbelt. Why? Because it's the precautionary principle, pretty much common sense.

Yes in the past we let children wander, but if you asked those parents in the past if there was some very low cost way to afford additional security like knowing where your 10 year old is, they would obviously take it. But for some reason people take the wrong lessons from the past.

[lurking_swe]

nitpick: the “where is erica?” is a catchy title for the feature being showcased - which is actually a notification that your child made it to school safely. Look at the screenshot closely (i don’t think you did). That’s a genuinely useful feature.

Anyway I agree with you in general! But don’t forget that everyone has a different relationship with their kids and each kid is different. Believe it or not, not every teenager goes through a rebellious phase. some kids might actually appreciate a watch like this because mom and dad will pester them less and be less anxious in general.

Of course the main issue is the person purchasing the watch is the parent, and some parents don’t really respect their children’s feelings. It can definitely be a problem so I hear what you’re saying. It can be used in a way that takes away their freedom. That’s not cool.

another consideration: this device can be a bridge from a dumb phone to a smart-ish device, a device that’s not an actual smart phone.

[Someone]

> which is actually a notification that your child made it to school safely. Look at the screenshot closely (i don’t think you did). That’s a genuinely useful feature.

Is it? I would think that the useful notification would be “Erica didn’t make it to school safely”. A notification that kids are where they are expected to be will needlessly distract parents many millions of times, and may cause anxiety every time it’s a few minutes late. I think it would be a net loss to society.

Luckily, I don’t think that image shows a notification. AFAICT, it’s a response from a user actively asking their phone where that watch is.

[lurking_swe]

> I would think that the useful notification would be “Erica didn’t make it to school safely”.

That’s an excellent point actually. 100%. I don’t think FindMy can support something like that today which is unfortunate. I think the parent could create an ios shortcut that runs at a certain time every day, but that’s a lot of work lol.

> Luckily, I don’t think that image shows a notification.

It certainly does. It even say “time sensitive”, which is how ios annotates important notifications for a few years now. The FindMy app can also answer the “where is erica?” question (through siri), so i can see why it’s confusing.

[quietbritishjim]

> nitpick: the “where is erica?” is a catchy title for the feature being showcased - which is actually a notification that your child made it to school safely.

When I click on that square it says:

> See everyone’s location using the Find My app. And receive alerts when they arrive at their destination or get home. Parents can also get alerts when their child leaves a location, like school.

So the image shows a notification, but it claims to be possible to inspect their location at any time too.

[lurking_swe]

you’re correct - that’s the purpose of the Find My app. And this app can send useful notifications.

[cl3misch]

> this device can be a bridge from a dumb phone to a smart-ish device, a device that’s not an actual smart phone

What do you mean exactly? Is it really a "bridge from/to" or rather a "compromise between"?

[lurking_swe]

well it’s a device that can be smart in some crucial ways, without being distracting like a smartphone is. That’s what i mean. no social media or other cancer for a teenage brain. But it has useful apps for day to day life, like maps, music, messages, etc.

[agnishom]

> which is actually a notification that your child made it to school safely

Thank you for the comment. I did notice that it was a notification, though.

It is an useful feature, but I don't think this is a good trade-off. Some Erica's might skip school and do some dumb and unsafe things, but I think this bit of privacy and autonomy is actually necessary for a good life

[lurking_swe]

and i totally respect that point of view. but do realize that every family is different for better or worse, and has a different “culture”.

I’m not prescribing how others should run their families or what a good life means. :)

For example my kid is still young. I absolutely plan to use FindMy for peace of mind. Not to spy on them daily, but to quickly check where they are if they’re running 30 min or 60 min behind schedule. Like if they said they’d be home by x time. When they get older (maybe 14?) i’d flip it around and encourage them to disable location sharing with me most of the time, for privacy and autonomy, and ask them to intentionally use the “share location for 1 hour” feature when they want me to know their location. Like when they are in an uber, or walking home late at night from a friends house, etc.

[OkayPhysicist]

This a lame cop out, and obviously flawed. There are parents that beat their kids for being gay. There are families that kill their kids for marrying the wrong person. There are families that teach their kids open bigotry. Those people are evil, and I will absolutely prescribe that they shouldn't be doing that.

Putting your kids in a panopticon is abusive. It denies them their autonomy, it cripples their social growth, and there simply is no justifying it with "but it's our culture".

[lurking_swe]

apparently a tight knick family with open / great communication does not exist, and they must be abusive if they like to know where their kids are. LOL.

Yes horrible families exist. the fact that you can’t imagine a family in between those 2 extremes is sad. we’re at an impasse here so let’s just agree to disagree. The world is not black and white like you seem to think it is.

additionally this is already possible today. a parent can attach an airtag to their kids backpack or insert it into the sole of their sneakers, and call it a day. evil people will find ways to be evil. that’s nothing new.

[OkayPhysicist]

I used extreme examples because I was challenging the assertion that "culture" was an acceptable excuse for immoral behavior, not because I can't imagine mediocre families. The fact that damn near everyone reading it would agree that the examples I used were abhorrent was, in fact, the point: culture does not excuse abuse.

The second paragraph established that I think subjecting someone to constant surveillance is abuse, and why: it's an attack not just on their current autonomy, which is bad enough, but also their future autonomy, which I hold as categorically evil.

A justification for that belief, that attacking one's autonomy is a an attack on their person, used to be completely unnecessary in the kinds of circles that would happily associate with the label "Hacker". Sadly the libertarian (left and right) ideals that modern tech world were built on have crumbled under the weight of authoritarian influence.

[rexpop]

A parent as enlightened as you should have no trouble asking at dinner—without judgement or advice—"and how was your smoke sesh out back of the 7-11?"