[janalsncm]

Is there an excess of teachers in Alaska?

I can understand why rural schools would need H1Bs. They would probably need to pay a premium to attract teachers from out of state, not to mention Alaska. And rural schools are the least able to actually do that.

Maybe if the current admin really wants to keep the $100k fee, they can extend an olive branch by either waiving the fee or helping to fund American teachers to move to fill those jobs.

[Starman_Jones]

My sister was a schoolteacher in Alaska. They pay a premium, but it’s still not a life that most Americans are cut out for, including me. That means the schools have to choose between giving these kids subpar teachers who are happy to live up there, or miserable teachers who are only doing it for the money. Or, we can hire foreign teachers who are qualified AND are happy to teach up there.

[BoingBoomTschak]

> foreign teachers who are qualified AND are happy to teach up there

But are they? Or are they just willing and here for the money and foot in the immigration door? Sincere question, though I have negative views of the whole H1B thing in general (not a US national, though).

[sinuhe69]

If you care, you certainly can find a lot of information about it nowadays. Of course, whether you want to believe it is another question.

https://youtu.be/FSmtbSYE8pg

[pseudalopex]

You thought this video proved what?

[Starman_Jones]

At a general level, it is a simple fact that there are more qualified/happy candidates globally than there are just in the United States. For the second part, no, I assume that money/opportunity are WHY they’re happy to teach up there. If that’s the motivation that keeps qualified teachers from turning to alcoholism or suicide, that’s a good thing for the kids.

[BobaFloutist]

Same issue as rural doctors, to be honest. It's hard to pay an American with a medical degree enough to live and work in that environment, so if we want to keep rural hospitals (and independent practices) staffed, we need to allow immigrants to do the work.

The alternative isn't that rural communities get doctors born in the US, it's that they get no doctors.

[m463]

I thought the medical board could assign doctors to locations.

(But I don't know how it really works, maybe it was residency only?)

[snozolli]

the schools have to choose between giving these kids subpar teachers who are happy to live up there, or miserable teachers who are only doing it for the money.

1) Why is that the dichotomy?

2) Do you say the same thing about well-paid oilfield workers living in RVs, away from their families and social networks?

3) Do you think the foreign workers are happy to be in Alaska for the sake of the Alaskan experience?

For some reason, people are convinced that teacher salaries have to be suppressed, lest the "wrong people" take the jobs. As if stressing about making rent is a critical signal of virtue, exclusively for teaching.

[Starman_Jones]

1) because there aren’t enough teachers in-state + coming out of the lower 48 to meet demand.

2) Pay alone can’t make people happy, which is why there’s a very high alcoholism/suicide rate among oil workers, despite it typically being a more temporary gig than teaching and paying considerably more. I also hold teachers to a different standard for on-the-job demeanor than oil workers.

3) Per my brother in law, they’re happy to be in Alaska for the American experience.

4) Foreign teachers in Alaska aren’t suppressing wages. That would be true for free market jobs where schools can simply decide not to teach students if it’s not profitable, but teaching isn’t like that.

[snozolli]

1) Because of the low wages.

2) Pay attracts workers. "Happiness" is a separate and personal issue.

3) Anecdata.

4) The fact is that far higher wages would attract American teachers for short periods. It is a free market, until exploitable labor is introduced. Foreign teachers absolutely are suppressing wages, as evidenced by the fact that the wages aren't high enough to attract American teachers.

[sidewndr46]

They pay a premium or the state pays tax dollars to all residents as a premium?

[throwaway85825]

There's as many teachers in Alaska as they're willing to pay for.

[nsagent]

Having lived in bumblefuck Alaska for a year, I can honestly say that they do in fact pay more, but it's also super expensive to live in rural Alaska.

Likely a bigger issue is that very few people want to live in a town of 3000 people or less that isn't connected to the interstate road system. Money can only do so much to fix that.

[throwaway85825]

Some people live in a pressurized bubble for a month for saturation diving. If the price is right you can get someone to do almost anything.

[fc417fc802]

That is true but I think the salient observation here is that it's only realistic to pay so much for education. So either you can't have children in such a town, or you're forced to homeschool, or (I guess what's being suggested is) you import someone willing to work an undesirable job if it gets them into the country.

I think there's an important difference between importing labor to undercut qualified americans in a populated area versus importing labor to do a job that the vast majority of qualified americans will have no interest in at any reasonable pay rate.

[spwa4]

Do we even realize this is the very beginning of the worldwide demographic transition? American and Worldwide cities aren't replacing themselves, and they're not having children ... as a way to save. And this is getting worse. Meanwhile the whole world is going through a demographic transition.

Which, allow me to translate, means in less than 25 years there will not be any society worldwide that has the people to allow Emigration. As stupid as it sounds now, Iran, China, the Taliban (just an example) are 15 years away from outlawing emigration, and Germany less than that. China is mostly there, btw, but apparently able to keep that little extra authoritarian detail out of the news.

You're a farmer in China? There's NO way out. You can't go to the city, you can't leave the country. No way out whatsoever, except perhaps death. And the question "how is that different from slavery?" will be fought, not answered, by Chinese authorities. As I said, pay attention, because the 2 presidents down the US president, whoever it is by then, will make the same arguments (Yes, I get that there were worse slavery systems, like the African slave trade, than that. But it's still slavery)

That means in less than a generation any American town WILL be forced to dedicate their own population to everything they need done.

[mothballed]

Watch some documentaries about Chinese borders (easy to find ones of peasants illegally entering Kashmir for instance) or even look at a map. There is absolutely no way to keep even broke peasants from leaving. China doesn't even know where many of their borders are, that's why a lot of them show up as dotted lines. China has about the most porous border for leaving as any place on earth but Russia or Brazil (entering illegally is a different issue -- if you want to go anywhere urban desirable you will be found out -- that they have good controls for). This compounded by the fact that many of China's neighboring countries have robust populations of undocumented / nationless people into which they can be absorbed rather than sticking out as a sore thumb wherever they end up.

Iran and Afghanistan are almost as laughable. When I was in Syria I met an Iranian guy with one eye that travelled through the Kurdish mountains into Iraq and then Syria. Iran doesn't even control the mountain passes out of the country, they're literally controlled by Kurdish rebels who have very little concept of immigration controls other than pay me a dollar.

[machomaster]

> the vast majority of qualified americans will have no interest in at any reasonable pay rate.

Herein lies the whole problem. It is the potential employees who determine what a reasonable pay rate is, not the employer - the cat decides what kind of milk it likes.

[8note]

you could also export the children, or the whole family, to a place that can support teachers

[hdgvhicv]

Depopulating rural Alaska, or America in general, is certainly a campaign strategy.

[ahoka]

Do you really suggest to copy Ceaușescu and start evacuating villages in rural Alaska?

[allarm]

It doesn't matter how much money you have if you can't spend it.

[throwaway85825]

That applies to a ton of people in the military. People are capable of delayed gratification.

[janalsncm]

Well, maybe that’s the solution to the problem. Deploy troops to the classrooms.

[thisisit]

What is the federal budget for military vs education? Which one increases and which one decreases most of the time?

[redserk]

Repeating trite platitudes only makes your argument sound weak and tired.

[RobotToaster]

Does Amazon not deliver to Alaska?

[watwut]

I would be fully willing to live in a pressurized bubble for a month for saturation diving. Sounds cool and doable. Living for years in rural Alaska and being a teacher? Absolutely not.

That being said, there are not that many saturation divers, because being a month in a bubble is kind of least problem with it. The lifelong health impact is.

[maratc]

The biggest issue with saturation diving is not the pressure or the health impact, it's the fact that you share a tiny space with 3-6 other people for a month.

This might be the opposite of living in Alaska where you share a really huge amount of space with not a lot of other people.

[s1artibartfast]

Yes, there is supply and demand. However, that doesnt mean a government cant restrict supply.

[dani__german]

It precisely and explicitly demands that the government restrict supply of foreign labor, as that increases the fair market value of American wage earners. It increases the opportunities for young Americans to trade their labor for a start in life, to support their families, and to make our nation stronger. Importing foreign labor makes it more difficult to justify hiring Americans, and undermines the nation's long term success for short term gains. It is effectively an Anti-investment.

[intended]

If the clearing rate is equal to the cost of an engineer at a tech firm in SF, the education budget for a small town in Alaska wouldn't afford it.

Your formulation isn't wrong, however it covers only one scenario. What happens when the locality cannot afford the cost to attract people to their region?

This is not even theoretical, its what happened to the rest of the world, as their best and brightest immigrated to America or Europe.

You could say "them's the breaks" and I would understand. However people vote for solutions, so how would you cover the worst case scenario?

[dani__german]

we already massively subsidize Alaskan transportation and infrastructure. Adding school teachers, or changing school teacher education requirements, are both options.

[s1artibartfast]

This supposes and outcome where domestic wages are increased and investment is made. It supposes that americans are willing and capable of doing the labor at a price point that americans will accept.

It is also possible we will simply not teach these children (or build infrastructure, grow labor intensive crop, ect).

[dani__german]

You're describing a market failure. That is a possibility with life. Our economic system worked during eras of very low immigration, namely the 1930s thru 1950s, and our education system was the best in the whole world.