[sheepscreek]

I love this term - I think it beautifully describes the direction that at least, YouTube is heading towards. Take for example, this racket where a channel copies popular (non-kids) creators’ parody work, splits the screen in half with the content on left, adds a completely random DIY type video on the right half, and lo and behold its content for kids who are too young to know any better[1].

Another one: AI voiceovers on videos taken from Asian apps, with some made up emotional story, followed by “if you love your mom, like and subscribe” - which kids (< 8yrs) actually do![2]

Or for that matter that YouTube makes it so hard to block channels and impossible to unblock specific channels (at least for kids). The platform has been unwilling to do anything about it for years. I suppose maybe this isn’t the best example but it’s definitely along the lines of a corporation prioritizing profits over all else, especially disregarding the wellbeing of their users.

1. https://youtu.be/VF4V7bRjjdo https://youtu.be/UoGuLabqgrk

2. https://youtube.com/shorts/B2ZNFiix8JA https://youtube.com/shorts/0eYYKRRcYrA

[skwirl]

It is crazy to me that any parent of young children would let their kids watch YouTube videos on their own. Maybe this happened gradually enough that some parents didn't notice, but we had our first kid a couple years ago and I nope'd out of YouTube pretty quickly when I saw what was there. Even the channels known for being good - which we occasionally let the kids watch as long as we were present and choosing the videos - started to clearly optimize for engagement over quality, and so now we're done with it entirely. The stuff there for "kids" legitimately horrifies me.

[brandensilva]

We blocked YouTube recently in the household for all devices but one approved tv device that our kids are only able to watch with us.

I let my oldest daughter at 10 watch stuff there a couple times a week which she largely watches Minecraft videos. I know everything she consumes for now.

Eventually that will stop and she's on her own when she is more responsible as an older teenager but the important point here is this isn't helicopter parenting, it's survival at protecting her brain from dopamine overload making her a content addict.

I don't want to go full Amish as I think it's important to prepare our kids for the inevitable world they will be exposed too but I feel I'd fail them letting them loose.

[boringg]

Agreed - even older children shouldn't be exposing themselves to that garbage. Totally garbage in garbage out situation. Youtube can be good if its highly curated -- otherwise its just trash.

[port11]

Agreed. We understand that some parents in our milieu rely on YouTube for when they need to get stuff done, it’s pretty relatable.

What we ended up doing: download a few dozen videos from the channels we think are good for kids. I hate CocoMelon’s fast-paced videos, but find SuperSimpleSongs agreeable, so we now have a Jellyfin section for toddler videos that teach him something.

Screen time in general is highly advised against, but for that odd moment where we need extra entertainment, at least he’s watching something we’ve vetted. YouTube Kids is a cesspool of content, and your ability to block bad channels is ineffective since they pop up like moles.

[brnt]

> We understand that some parents in our milieu rely on YouTube for when they need to get stuff done

Certainly is, I can't get around this sometimes in order to do chores either. This is why I have a variety of kids movies, shows, series on disk. Plenty of variety, but all vetted.

[port11]

We were strictly no-screen parents until we were both super sick and the toddler was his usual energetic self. “Just let him watch some videos…” </3

[brnt]

My son does not care about video (yet?), which is good. But sometimes when I'm alone and I just must do the chore and they just won't play on their own for 10 minutes (which thankfully they often do), I don't see another way. I mean, I don't feel safe handling hot pans when a toddler just glues itself to my legs. I can lock them in their rooms, but that does not seem better to me (they'll be very upset).

[smallmancontrov]

It's wild that the same easily detectable spam formula from a decade ago is still active beneath every finance video today: "I'm confused! Well I gave my money to Mr. Scammy McScamface and he gave me 1000% returns! Google Scammy McScamface now!"

[ghurtado]

The problem of 8yr olds watching too much YouTube is definitely not one for YouTube to fix.

We're quickly getting to a point where all parenting is delegated to people and institutions that have nothing to do with raising children.

And then we complain that our kids are not being raised properly. We don't even know who to blame for this any more.

[xyzzy_plugh]

I'd like to agree but practically there are difficulties enforcing it. Anecdotally I know of some parents having a battle with their local school because their kids have been watching this sort of crap in kindergarten.

Fundamentally it seems like building products designed to target children with harmful content, or content that substitutes for educational material, should not be accepted by society.

So yes parents are responsible but maybe we should stop building The Torment Nexus but for children.

[bondarchuk]

Fundamentally it seems like kindergartens showing youtube videos to kids should not be accepted by society.

[fauchletenerum]

> Anecdotally I know of some parents having a battle with their local school because their kids have been watching this sort of crap in kindergarten.

I'm imagining a scene from Idiocracy where a kindergarten teacher is the person whose job it is to press play on Youtube videos

[SauntSolaire]

I see "Torment Nexus" has completed is evolution into a catch-all term for "things I don't like".

[aaroninsf]

This reads like literal propaganda.

Every assertion of personal responsibility (sic) in the face of billion to trillion dollar industry spending is bad faith, zero exceptions.

British Petroleum invented the concept of personal climate footprint. That was bad faith and to put a point on it, evil.

Tech industry claims that engagement farming and addition manufacture should be opposed by "parenting" are even less credible.

[kakacik]

Yes and no. Look around you and count how many properly failing parents there are. Parents who literally offload their parenting to a tablet, TV, phone, nanny which is often on phone herself, whatever. Then complain kids are unruly when they don't simply listen to them like soldiers. Parents, who are often as addicted to the screens (and more) as their kids. Recent studies showed above half of toddlers below 2 spend an hour or more daily on screens, thats fucked up.

I can count many such parents, way too many that I know. Kids before 5-6 should not access internet and should not watch TV. Don't trust me, trust children psychologists. Its toxic to their developing brains and personalities. Let them fuck up their lives on their own later if they must, don't give them hard addiction from the literal start of life, just because 'oh daddy has this super important work so doesn't have time to be a parent' syndrome, especially when its mostly empty pathetic soul draining white collar work with 0 added value to humanity.

And if one is truly changing the world for the better (as in 1 out of those maybe 10 humans actually currently doing it) and can't spare time for some kids, then don't have them, its not some freakin' checkbox ticked and moving to next challenge and achievement unlocked. Its by far the hardest effort one can make in one's life, spans over 2+ decades, be never 100% successful, while facing many real risks of failure completely outside of one's powers (no I don't mean peer pressure phones in school, rather ie health issues)

[mplanchard]

I think this is a “yes, and” kind of situation. Yes, a lot of parents suck, and yes, we should try to improve that situation, but also yes, we absolutely should punish megacorporations for making parents’ jobs harder by targeting children with their proven-to-be-harmful products.

Like, parents shouldn’t give cigarettes to their children, BUT ALSO it is both illegal and immoral for tobacco companies to target children.

[ryandrake]

> Parents, who are often as addicted to the screens (and more) as their kids.

This is a huge part of it. Kids are great at spotting hypocrisy, and if you tell them to put down the screens, yet you yourself are scrolling Instagram all day, the kid is going to know you are full of shit! It's like smoking a cigarette while telling your kid that smoking is bad for you.

[lazide]

And how many of those parents are spending 50+ hours a week (or more) working too?

There are finite fucks anyone can give, and if someone is working all day keeping a roof over their head, what else is it going to happen?

[tdb7893]

At that age I could watch TV or play video games without strict parental supervision (I had older brothers and would often play with them while my mom cooked or whatever). I was lucky because while I did watch some age inappropriate media (I watched Gundam Wing on Toonami when I was 7) I was really lucky that none of these things were trying to addict me to them in the same way media often does now.

I don't think the level of autonomy I had in the mid-late 90s would be a good idea now, even though it helped me be an independent and resilient adult, and I don't think that's parents' fault. I would've really struggled with the purposefully addictive nature of modern media and trying to balance autonomy with managing the exploitative nature of modern technology makes me anxious to have kids (and I've met a lot of parents who had some issues with it).

[sifar]

>> trying to balance autonomy with managing the exploitative nature of modern technology makes me anxious to have kids

This is a legitimate concern and the anxiety is understandable. I think that would make you a much better parent than many. Most often, parents use these as crutches, so as a parent one has to set ground rules (for ourselves) and enforce them.

No tablets/phone access for entertainment till 6-7 yrs - there is simply no reason for this. No unsupervised access till 10-12 yrs.

Use game console like the switch instead of mobile games. Curate stuff for them. Mostly be involved in how they use technology, discuss with them what it is and what effect it can have in a way they can relate too.

[lo_zamoyski]

> We're quickly getting to a point where all parenting is delegated to people and institutions that have nothing to do with raising children.

This is just the logical conclusion of consumerism.

Consumerism produces careerism. Careerism produces the two income household. A two income household cannot devote the needed time to raising children during their early years. Day care and school and after school activities has been used to keep children busy while parents were hunting for that next promotion and the bigger paycheck to get the better car to get the better "status" in the eyes of their neighbors.

The zombie is the perfect symbol for consumerism, because it involves a mindless, indiscriminate, beastly, and insatiable hunger that would sell his own grandmother for that next disposable morsel.

I think we really need to reshape things to conform to biological and human reality instead of working against it. In the case of women, our culture as well as our political and economic structures must support the ability of women to have children earlier and to be able to raise them themselves during their early years. Many women do actually want this, but the culture pressures them to do otherwise or convinces them that the consumerist lifestyle is more attractive, causing them to defer having children (constraining their fertile years) and to pursue careers that increasingly make it difficult to choose to relinquish for at least some time as they raise their children.

[port11]

When I was a kid, I was allowed to watch the cartoons on Saturday morning. At no point — ever, in the entire history of television or parenting — would my parents have to be worried that I was watching ad-ridden content, scam videos, spam AI slop, fake nonsense, etc.

Screen time is not great but it’s widespread. The best we can do is steer it towards better places. We’re not asking YouTube to parent our kids, but rather want it to be as accountable as other media have always been, specifically in its ‘Kids’ app.

If a TV channel back in the day had the kind of crap that YouTube Kids has, it would pay a heavy fine.

[frankieg33]

the only respectful youtubers are those that monetize off platform. Veritasium had a video a while back (that I can't find now) where he was walking around London saying the algo is requiring that he make longer videos. lo and behold, his videos are now 20+ mins when the main idea can be explained in 4 mins.