[dbetteridge]

I appreciate the measured discussion on what can be a thorny subject.

So extended clarification on the "belief shaping morality" point.

I hold no issue with it, until one person's belief driven morality impinges on another persons own autonomy, you're free to act on your own life and person based on your beliefs but using that belief system as a weapon to cause others harm or reduce their autonomy as a person is where I draw the line.

[thin_carapace]

likewise. the vast majority of the time, broaching this topic is apparently an invitation to be lambasted from all sides, thank you for treating me respectfully. the next positions i see proceeding your point are either (widely) the paradox of tolerance, or (narrowly) analysing specific behavioural patterns and their wider impact on the community. im fairly certain we will agree on the former and could probably discuss at length various instantiations of the latter (eg. partner count is correlated with divorce rate, why should i be happy that everybody is encouraged to fuck everybody in the west when all i want is 1 wife and 1 family, being respectful of autonomy is nice but everybody fucking everybody actively goes against my autonomy so personally i dont feel particularly universally respectful regardless as to whether this belief was spurred religiously or secularly). however discussing various instantiations could go on forever so it is understood if the infinite loop is optimized out, preferably it could be factorized differently than 'paradox of tolerance' but i dont have the formula