[WalterBright]

It's perfectly legal for you and like-minded people to set up a commune, and create the society you want.

Or join an existing one.

[bumby]

Would you extend that same sentiment to the extremes of the libertarian crowd too?

[WalterBright]

I can answer that if you can explain what you mean by extreme libertarianism.

[bumby]

I can go into detail, but for the sake of the argument let’s define it in the Norquist fashion: a government small enough that it can be drowned in the bathtub. A stricter definition might be anything beyond and to include minarchism.

[WalterBright]

You'll need to be more specific.

[bumby]

“beyond and to include minarchism” is pretty specific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

[WalterBright]

Ok, I see that. But you cannot set up such a community within the current US, as it runs afoul of the primacy of Federal law.

A commune, however, can be.

[WalterBright]

BTW, the best I can figure is the average commune member quits after about 2 years, cured of the notion that communism is for them.

[api]

Same is true for most eco villages, back to the land farms, etc.

It’s a mix of the lifestyle not being exactly what people thought plus them getting culty. In many cases it’s more the latter than the former.

[WalterBright]

What happens is people get tired of other people not working very diligently, but still getting an equal share.

[bumby]

That’s a real aspect, but only one dimension. Nonetheless, it’s telling that it’s what you distill the entire problem down to. There are many other problems that make the problem hard:

a) these communities often depend on consensus decision making. Problems that require collective action get nearly impossible when the society gets too big

b) People underestimate how much they depend on greater society in a modern context

c) It’s normal for future generations to have evolving values. The original idealistic notions tend to lose their luster to those who were born into it

There are others more unique to communes, but I highlighted those because they also make it hard for the inverse libertarian ideal to work as well. Meaning it has to do as much with human nature as any ideology.