[d3Xt3r]

The question remains. Where do you draw the line? What are the rules?

The site only states "There's only one rule: generative AI cannot be used in the creation of the project.", without defining any further rules, nor does it clarify the exact definition of "creation of the project".

Like, what if you included a library in your project that was vibe-coded (but your main code wasn't), would your project be considered as "human-made"?

[F3nd0]

> The question remains. Where do you draw the line? What are the rules?

These questions absolutely remain, but their scope is not nearly as wide as some people here make it out to be. Of course, narrowing it down further might be nice.

[happytoexplain]

"You must nail down every single detail in objective terms" is a dishonest requirement we, as engineers, reach for when we don't like something subjectively. It's petty. It's not honest.

[d3Xt3r]

If you're an engineer, you'll understand why it's not petty. You do not want ambiguity in engineering. If you cannot even define what it is that you're campaigning for, then it's just random ramblings with no substance. No one's going to take you seriously if you can't even define what you're asking of others.

[selfhoster1312]

You don't want ambiguity in a proper engineering project. In a simple webpage denouncing the slop machine and their prevalent sloperators, I've got more than enough to know i appreciate the initiative. I'm personally considering an actual boycott of anything remotely involving AI.

[d3Xt3r]

That's fine, but again, you need to be clear on where you're drawing the line. Because boycotting "anything remotely involving AI" means boycotting all mainstream operating systems (Linux, Windows, Android, macOS, iOS) - which means ditching smartphones completely and maybe even mobile phones completely (because I'm not sure if you can find a 4G-capable phone that doesn't use some sort of Linux-based OS).

But this also means you won't be able to work most white-collared jobs, as almost every such job these days involves operating a computer running a mainstream OS. But I guess there are still some jobs out there where you could be operating a legacy OS, such as as some banks and other financial institutions, maybe you could learn COBOL and work on mainframes or something.

And naturally your boycott would also include most of the modern web, because most web browsers these days have some sort of AI involvement or the other, not to mention most mainstream websites as well. So there's a good chance that even though you're working on old-school mainframes, you may still need to do your timesheets or taxes or whatever on a modern website. Or send emails at the very least. So most modern jobs would be a no-go.

So I hope you've got your line well defined, because "anything remotely involving AI" is a pretty loaded phrase that could completely cut you off modern technology and workplaces, and you could end up living the life of a hermit, or a medieval-era farmer or something. Which, I'm not saying is a bad or impossible thing - I know at least a couple of people who quit IT completely, took up farming and have gone off-grid - its certainly doable, so the question is, how badly you hate AI, and how far are you willing to go?

[g-b-r]

> Like, what if you included a library in your project that was vibe-coded (but your main code wasn't), would your project be considered as "human-made"?

Of course not.

[d3Xt3r]

What if the library was human-made, but that library included a library that was vibe-coded?

If that's not okay, what if the library included a library which included a library that was vibe-coded?

[g-b-r]

I think you know the answer :rolleyes:

Hopefully things are not so bad yet that it's an unlikely situation

[d3Xt3r]

I don't know the answer, so please do enlighten.

[g-b-r]

Any dependency on a vibe-coded library, however indirect, makes an application not 100% human made (since the application relies on the library for some of its featutes).

[d3Xt3r]

If that's going to be your definition, then it's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible to have a 100% human made program, unless you've personally hand-coded the entire OS, or you've verified beyond doubt that no vibe-coded dependency exist in the entire dependency chain - both build and runtime, direct and indirect.

I'm not sure how feasible verification of that would be, unless we have some "certified 100% human" certification program of some sort, with an external auditing agency or something - because you can't trust humans, they will 100% lie.