[hyperhello]

Your company is laying people off because they need something to do. They’re goalless in the extreme and relying on big talk and big action about the latest fad. You don’t have leaders, you have owners.

You must look around and see the lack of men, and force yourself to become one.

[BigTTYGothGF]

> You must look around and see the lack of men, and force yourself to become one.

As a man I need you to expand on this because I'm trying to imagine what concrete actions you think "a man" would do in this circumstance, and of the things I've come up with the only one I think I'm allowed to say on this forum is "quit and find a new job."

[happytoexplain]

Why complicate this? It's a well defined, harmless phrase. We don't have to pretend it's a touchy gender-related issue.

[a96]

It clearly is not. Also the tone of this comment is at odds with site rules.

[hyperhello]

What do you mean, allowed to say on this forum? Who is around to stop you from saying what you mean? Is this some kind of dramatic display of your secondary status? What responsibility for you are you asking me to take?

[BigTTYGothGF]

> What do you mean, allowed to say on this forum?

This forum is ran by my fellow man, dang, who expects a certain level of decorum and discretion, and it would be ungentlemanly to act otherwise. A Real Man knows to keep his cards close to his chest. It's a violation of the Bro Code to say some stuff out loud, my dude.

> What responsibility for you are you asking me to take?

I'm asking you to explain what actions you think OP, as a Man, should take in this situation. Quit (quietly or loudly)? Refuse and get fired? Something else?

[hyperhello]

Your username and comment is soaked with a certain kind of negativity as you demand I take responsibility for my comment. Do you see that? I advise the blog author to do the opposite. I want him to look around and become the exact person that he looks at as an authority that stands tall and takes responsibility for their identity and their actions. He’ll meet resistance from people who can complain endlessly but never help or stop to think, but also much support from people who do help and need a strong and stable person. That’s what I recommend.

[happytoexplain]

This is bizarre and hostile. Be clear or resist the urge to distract.

[bossyTeacher]

> You must look around and see the lack of men, and force yourself to become one.

What exactly does this mean?

[DonaldPShimoda]

I think parent commenter is using "men" in a manner similar to mensch, as in "a person of integrity and honor" [1]. In other words, "look around and notice nobody is taking responsibility, and choose to be the person who lifts others up." Or something.

It's a weird way to phrase it, in my opinion, especially in this era where we are generally avoiding ambiguously gendered collective nouns... but I'm pretty sure that's the gist. Or, at least, it's how I read it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensch

[happytoexplain]

"Men" is colloquially used here to mean "decent people", "strong people", "principled people", etc. It's a generic positive description ("Be a man", "Man up").

Younger generations might bristle at this use of the word, and that's fine, but try to give the benefit of the doubt (in fact, it's a rule on HN).

[hyperman1]

As an older generation man, I've tried to understand the touchiness here. This is dangerous territory, so I hope you try to read my intent here, even if the packaging is not as strong as I want it to be.

The best analogy I can come up with is the smurf village: Every smurf has an identity, describing a bunch of mannerism. Baker smurf, strong smurf, joke smurf ... The smurfette is both the only adult female and a separate identity. Her existence in a children's story serves to demonstrate to young humans how the female identity is supposed to work.

I think the smurf village echos a deep human archetype. A man is someone who can choose his identity. He is unbound. A woman is a man with an already fixed identity. She can't choose to be e.g. a baker as primary identity, her choice is made already.

While simplified, there is some truth in this worldview, and people, especially woman, are correct to protest teaching this archetype to new generations.

In the same way, the poster above uses 'Be a man' to probably mean something like: 'Be brave enough to choose a new identity'. Which is a valid message, but needs an implied ([*] woman are also men here) when this archetype is considered.

[hyperhello]

Thanks for the well written response. It should be pointed out that Smurfs reproduce in the manner of spores and their gender is just a matter of children’s entertainment.

Extremely online people find the sweet contention in everything and act accordingly.

As for the [*] I did assume that the target was male because of the content of the writing. But if they were female they are presumably going to be no more or less able to discern the value.

[fc417fc802]

Giving the benefit of the doubt can only come after one understands what was said. Case in point, asking someone to clarify should be assumed to be a good faith question that comes from a place of ignorance. (And to your credit you did indeed provide an explanation.)

[isoprophlex]

I'm giggling a little, imagining a company run almost entirely by raccoons... and the OP sitting there as the sole human, lamenting the lack of men.

[miltonlost]

Raccoons at least have some sort of intelligence. Leeches are a better animal comparison IMO