[MSFT_Edging]

I know the "bring them into this world" thing is overdone, but a big part of me feels it to my core.

I haven't seen a firefly in a couple years. If I had a child today, describing this bug to a child would be almost mythical.

How many things that we've taken for granted will a child born today never get to experience? Not shallow things like iPods, but genuine miracles of nature we're wiping out at an accelerating pace. I can't in good conscious bring a child into a world that so many are focused on absolutely destroying.

It's my protest to allow the pyramid of consumption to collapse. I will not bring a just another customer into the world. I won't bring a child here just so they can be a pawn to try to recover from poor planning.

We as humans need this population collapse. We need to learn how to organize society on long-term sustainability, not a pyramid scheme.

Every time I see this discussion, it's always framed like a call to action, that we need new children to bail out the sinking boat and keep it floating for another generation or two.

[SamPatt]

>I can't in good conscious bring a child into a world that so many are focused on absolutely destroying.

Who is focused on destroying the world?

I don't think hardly any super villains exist. People might have a different assessment of what destroying the world means than you do.

[MSFT_Edging]

Many people think a well manicured lawn sprayed with pesticides is preferable to local wildflowers and shrubs.

They "have a different assessment" but they're still contributing to an extinction event. You don't need to be a super villain. You can simply be selfish. Once scaled to many many selfish people, you have a collective villain.

[forlorn_mammoth]

SamPatt, it isn't necessarily individuals making individual decisions. Yeah, very few supervillains.

But perhaps you've heard talk of things like "6th mass extinction event" or "global climate change"?

both of which are direct consequences of our industrialized society?

Look, I'm personally grateful for modern medicine and indoor plumbing, to name a few things. I don't want to go back to some idealized hunter-gatherer past (yes, I've tried it).

And regardless of the actual truth of ecological and climate collapse, or your particular views on the actual truth of these, enough people see enough convincing evidence that the parent poster's view is supported by enough people to matter.

We live in a blessed window.

[Larrikin]

People shutting down efforts to transition from fossil fuels because they can make more money from fossil fuels and will be dead before they experience any of the consequences are the typical example.

[Qem]

> I don't think hardly any super villains exist.

We have billionaries and LLCs, supervillains whose superpowers are based on being rich, don't worrying about the future much beyond the next quarter, and pretending personhood to hold rights like people, but without the possibility of getting arrested.

[robotnikman]

I hate to say it, but I have been feeling the same way recently. I just don't see humanity being sustainable on this planet if we are relying on constantly producing more and more people. There has to be an equilibrium of some kind.

[vladms]

I doubt anybody wants to produce more and more people. Most predictions for total population size I have seen are rather asymptotic.

We should discuss and reason about population size (where we are, where should we be, what should we do), but with a bit less passion. 30 years ago people were all doom about "over-population" and now I see all doom about "under-population".

[trumpdong]

I mean, a one child policy would be more sustainable than a zero child reality.

[matchbok3]

A pawn of consumerism? Please, please, I beg you. Detail a single communist civilization that thrived. Give me a break.

The world is actually great, you are just focused on the negatives.

Ever think that a child born today would be the one to help solve these problems you are so worried about?

What a sad, resigned way to think about the world.

[MSFT_Edging]

You reworded what I said and changed the context greatly.

Our economic system is a pyramid of consumption, wealth gets concentrated up and relies on an ever increasing lower strata to maintain the status quo. When the lower section stops increasing, it breaks down. I barely want to live in a world of constant harassment by middle men.

I don't want a child to be a pawn in the greater "Population decline!!!!" propaganda mill, where the threat and fault of the failing pyramid scheme is placed on the lower strata rather than the doomsday-bunker class.

>Ever think that a child born today would be the one to help solve these problems you are so worried about?

More sweeping current problems under the future generation's rug. We could solve many of these problems today, but the causes of the problems are protected by the state.

[trumpdong]

Why do you think every society is either consumerist or communist?

[taeric]

An odd example, as fireflies are still pretty big in the places they have always been, aren't they? I know when I get to visit my childhood states, they are still there. Similar for cicadas and other bugs of my youth that I didn't realize were far more local than I expected.

[MSFT_Edging]

It was just a recently notable example. Even as of 2-3 years ago I used to see them a decent amount. They're a highly visible marker of an insect population that is dropping like a rock.

They're also a beautiful creature that I could imagine wishing a child of mine could experience the same way I did, which better illustrates the tragedy of the damage we're doing to the planet.

[taeric]

I'm assuming you still live in the same place? My understanding the last time I took a dive on this is that the numbers are going down, but not in any way that is going to see them gone. You will need to go to where they are, though. And, alas, the PNW is not a place to find them.

[MSFT_Edging]

yes, Eastern US.

Funny enough I saw a couple last night. 2-3 flying around.