| Let me start with:
> if you read the sources on AI research through its own history, you will see how the AI research space is full of such biases and assumptions. You are repeating it in different forms all the time, so it seems really important to you. I should state, that I don't believe that AI research has some special insights into human nature or into what agency is. I'm sure that they have some biases and assumptions, and maybe it is full of them. You don't need to prove it to me, but if you want to, you could list some of them. It would be interesting to read. OTOH I really like what AI research does right now. I believe it is beneficial for science and philosophy. "Throw away all that garbage from XX century and build something new." It will be something new, because they are creating things, not just daydreaming philosophically. It may be that the result of their research would be laughable, but it doesn't matter in the long term. It would be another way to look at things, which is the very important for pushing human knowledge forward. I expect AI research would create a heap of knowledge that would be mined for decades then to be incorporated into existing knowledge frameworks. The existing frameworks would break and people would create new ones. And it is an unhappy path, assuming that AI research will not stumble onto a good enough framework to consume all (or some of) others. Ah... There is one more assumption in there. The assumption that AI wouldn't change the world enough for my intuition of how things go becomes wrong, because it was trained on data from the old world where there was no AI. > We call it subjective because is 'we, ourselves' and not the objects we perceive there in the world, where the 'experience' is manifested, as perception. We do not always codify dichotomies in language. So you assume that this naming normalized due to stupid historic reasons, and reject the possibility that it reflects something deeper? Well, I don't. I'm consciously keep myself in an uncertain state, in other words I keep my mind wide open. Psychology teaches us to keep an eye on the exact phrasing, it reflects the real thinking process. It may be hard or even impossible to decipher these cues, but we should try at least. > In the real world, anyone doing a serious PhD thesis will read whatever is necessary to build a proper, sound theory or body of work. This dismissal just makes me think that you don't know how a PhD thesis is done. You are talking about about an established science, AI research regarding LLMs is not an established science. Things happens too fast for science to be established. If they slow down, then would be the great time to learn linguistics and to build bridges. > From what I see, you never took philosophy seriously. I don´t know how you can then seriously engage in a conversation about philosophy. I took it seriously enough to go from standard philosophic meta level to meta-meta level. I'm seeing not just what philosophy says it is doing, I see what it is really doing de facto. It is like POSIWID principle: the system purpose is what it does. > The AI space already declared that they 'know' how such processes work. Or at least, they pretend they do. I'd ask "did they really declared that", but you phrasing suggests that they didn't. I do not exactly on the topic, I do not read all they say, so I may be wrong, but I suppose what they really say, is more like "our machines can think". It is not the same "we know how thinking processes work" in general. They claim that they created some thinking processes. Am I right? > You would agree that 'problem solving' is just a small portion of what 'thinking' constitutes. I'm not sure really. You see, I don't know how thinking works. Especially I don't know how human thinking works. It may be that it involves more than just problem solving, or may be not. I can agree that when I reflect my own thinking it looks like something more than just problem solving. Or maybe something less: I have a strong suspicion that human thinking is tuned evolutionary to solve a specific kind of problems. Cultural training repurpose it for some other kinds, but it is like to drive in screws with a hammer, or to hammer nails with a screwdriver. And yes, it is the reasons I do not trust philosophers and scientists to judge if AI has agency already. The space of possible answers includes very scary ones, and in such cases human thinking strongly prefers safe options and creates very strong arguments in favor of them. Wow. I really glad I spent time arguing with you. I don't know if it was beneficial for you in some way, but it was for me, so thank you for your time. I've just found that I doubt that human thinking is up to the problem. Yeah... Probably the problem will be solved in a chaotic way, when society would just picks some "random" opinion after the dust settles. Yes! It is very likely outcome, we'll end with "they're made out of weights", so the text is prophetic. > You don't have to trust me. Just pick them up and think for yourself I'd like to, but you failed to spark a real interest in those books in me. I still do not see what fundamental shifts in my beliefs they may bring. They look like reiteration of thoughts and ideas I know already. Or maybe I know these ideas from reiterations of these books, which are the original sources for the ideas. I took notice of them, and I'll try to read them. But not right now. |
Reaching AGI or human-level intelligence might be possible, but not on the basis of dismissing what other fields already said something about. That is arrogant, and does not help. Even more, this has already happened in the 60s/70s. And I say 'might be possible' precisely because I pay attention to what other fields have to say.