[btilly]

The other 99% is even more dependent on the machine than the top 1%. They can build themselves reinforced bunkers, just in case. What is your plan if, say, the food distribution infrastructure breaks down?

Does that sound like an extremely unlikely outcome? Back in 2008, we came within hours of credit cards stopping working. Projections say that if credit cards stop working, food distribution breaks down. Mass hunger is not far behind that. And there is nothing like mass hunger to destroy a society.

Esoteric problems in financial markets have real world consequences. We've gone nearly a century since the last real demonstration of that. Don't discount the possibility that the next demonstration will be within your lifetime. And in our more interconnected world, it's likely to be a lot worse.

[toomuchtodo]

This is a call for community and durable systems that serve the human instead of traditional systems built to aggregate and funnel capital to a few. The fertility crisis is a capital crisis (taxpayers needed to pay back debt issued today decades into the future, workers for corporate profits), not a crisis for the individual. I see it as an exciting opportunity to maintain and improve quality of life for humans while solving for decoupling from these suboptimal systems primarily built to extract and exploit. Solarpunk vibes.

https://ilsr.org/ is one resource, there are more.

(to your food example, the US harvests land the aggregate size of the state of Oregon just for biofuels, ethanol and biodiesel; this is, arguable, unnecessary, and there are many other examples of unnecessary economic activity that can be deprecated)

[imtringued]

Uh no?

The fertility crisis is an entirely individual crisis. You are a parent and you raise children

Your children's pension contributions are paid out to someone else, leaving less for you.

Having your own children no longer ensures your retirement, so you don't have them in the first place.

The problem couldn't be more individual than that.

[trumpdong]

You're describing a systemic problem. An individual problem is: my paycheque is next week but I need to pay rent this week. That's a problem specific to me. A systemic problem is: paycheques aren't big enough to cover rent any more. It's a problem that affects a large number of people. Systems are comprised of individuals but describing a systemic problem from the perspective of one individual doesn't change the nature of the problem.

[toomuchtodo]

Having children in no way guarantees they will provide for you in old age. Stop by your local retirement home and ask how many kids stop by to see their parents. Free will is a thing, children are not assets.

[matchbok3]

Corporate profits are good, they help companies make new things.

Do you think they should lose money? How would you be typing on a computer if that evil, evil company didn't make a profit?

There is a reason every communist society has failed.

[tikkabhuna]

There is a huge gap between capitalism and communism.

Just like how pure communism doesn’t work, neither does pure capitalism.

[btilly]

I could rant about the stupidity of spending fossil fuels, to grow biofuels, for no net gain in energy. But with a definite cost in engine wear.

That said, like Democracy, capitalism is the worst economic system, except all of the others that have been tried. And there have been enough alternate experiments that I wouldn't want to literally bet my life on the next one working better.

[toomuchtodo]

Europe has done fairly well imho balancing socialism with capitalism and free market mechanisms, good patterns exist today I argue, even if they need tweaks and improvement. Importantly, these demographic curves are locked in for decades into the future, so might as well get comfortable with forward curve of change, we aren't going back to the historical demographic growth curve in anyone's lifetime, if ever. Plan, forecast, and model accordingly.

The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44866621 - August 2025 (400 comments)

(~71% of the world’s population now lives in countries with birth rates below the replacement level needed to maintain population size, the remainder will follow in time)

[matchbok3]

Europe's "socialist" only works because they depend on the USA for military protection and tech innovation. Or oil revenues.

[trumpdong]

The free market is a very good starting point indeed, but it shouldn't be confused with Capitalism. Ironically, the free market best embodies the Communist slogan "let a million flowers bloom". Capitalism is more like giving Elon a lawnmower.

[BigTTYGothGF]

> if credit cards stop working, food distribution breaks down

Except for the very last step in the chain I find it hard to believe that credit cards play much of a role.

[btilly]

How does almost everyone pay for food at the grocery store? If stores don't have a good way to get money from customers, how do they pay the next step up the line?

[trumpdong]

During COVID we all saw how the government can just override all this and ensure what needs to be done is done and what cannot be done is avoided - something we always thought was impossible. Yet we all quickly forgot this happened and now we're back to assuming it can't happen.

[bombcar]

During COVID we saw all sorts of insanity (semi trucks dumping tens of thousands of gallons of milk into the drains because they couldn't travel to the closed packaging plants).

Food distribution will still continue until the raw resources necessary crap out. Shelves won't go empty immediately, but once there's no gas for the trucks and tractors, then you'll be happy to be near the Amish.

[Henchman21]

You don’t think goods are acquired on credit?

Or are you focused pedantically on credit cards?

[BigTTYGothGF]

If OP hadn't said "credit cards" I wouldn't have commented.

[rekabis]

> What is your plan if, say, the food distribution infrastructure breaks down?

300 acres on the westward-facing slope of the interior cascade temperate rainforest. Even if the entire region sees extended drying over the next 50, there will still be sufficient rainfall for crops. All it will need are a few holding pools to reliably produce a year-round supply.

It’s also reasonably remote, difficult to reach unless you know of the specific path, and reasonably defensible.

[forlorn_mammoth]

Great idea! Let's scale this out so that everyone can have this same basic security!

[foobiekr]

Until you get cancer.

Survivalist fantasies aren’t realistic.

[rekabis]

It’s 30 minutes to the nearest town with a hospital. 2hrs from a moderate metro city with a large hospital. It’s isolated, not hundreds-of-km into the boonies.

[tikkabhuna]

I don’t think anyone is going to be working at the hospital if they have to start dedicating their time to survival?

[imtringued]

That's disproving foobiekr's point though.

>Until you get cancer. >Survivalist fantasies aren’t realistic.

"I have a survival plan"

"if you get a terminal illness, you will die anyway, checkmate"

"Ok fine I will go somewhere with medical infrastructure"

"Idiot, there is no medical infrastructure"

At this point the whole discussion is illogical. If there are no doctors, then the survivalist strategy gives up nothing.

The initial strategy obviously works. If you get ill, you just need to make sure you've had children and that your children are healthy.