[smallerfish]

It's not meaningless.

"Processed" means that ingredients had to be manipulated to produce the food (e.g. most recipes). Most of what you make at home is "processed".

"Ultra-processed" means food produced using industrial processing, using additives (perhaps not typically considered "food" in an of themselves) for emulsifying, flavor, shelf stability & preservation, color, etc. That's a clear distinction.

Whether or not that means anything for the nutritional value and health outcomes from consumption of the food is a different question, but it can clearly be studied.

[breezybottom]

That's not a clear distinction at all, since now you have to define "industrial". Why would mixing with an industrial blender lead to unhealthier food than a kitchen blender? Why would flour made with a gristmill be less healthy than a mortar and pestle? There's no theoretical basis.

[smallerfish]

I didn't say industrial processing led to unhealthier food. In fact I explicitly said that the health question is distinct from the definition, and can be studied.

[wouldbecouldbe]

You're just playing the semantics game for the sake of being contrarian.

If you really think Oreos, Pringles, and Lunchables aren't ultra-processed and extremely unhealthy, there's no point in having a discussion.

[Shog9]

If you have a clear definition, one that an informed reader could apply to some random product on their grocery store shelf to distinguish between "processed" (almost everything) and "ultra processed" (?), then you should post that definition.

Otherwise you're just playing the same game of Humpty Dumpty.

[vel0city]

Are Pringles in a can really that much more unhealthy for me than if I make the potato paste at home, fry them in oil at home, and toss them in lots of salts and seasonings at home?

[enragedcacti]

Immediately backing off to "I know it when I see it" really doesn't help your case that UPF is the right way to categorize unhealthy foods

[drum55]

It’s basically a wildcard, “ultra processed food” is a classification of nothing and everything. There’s nothing inherently bad about processing food, lots of food is terrible for you but that’s unrelated entirely.

[wouldbecouldbe]

There is 2 ways to have that discussion:

1. Ultra processed food is a media hype -> totally dismiss it

2. Ultra processed food is often used without proper classification and would be more useful to have well defined sub categories

[pessimizer]

These are both absolutely the wrong ways to look at it.

> 1. Ultra processed food is a media hype -> totally dismiss it

Don't let the media decide what you think, whether you want to go against them or you want to support them. Your faith or distrust in some media organization or segment has no effect on the truth value of some statement being made. They are adding commentary.

> 2. Ultra processed food is often used without proper classification and would be more useful to have well defined sub categories

Don't come up with words and then struggle to define them, or worse, argue with people about their definitions. Language is a tool. Discuss actual things, and use words to label those actual things. If they do not offer a definition for "ulta-processed food," do not help them. It is not up to you to come up with categories of food to fit the case they are making about "ultra-processed food." It is up to them to associate their health theories with the food they are trying to classify within them, both statistically and with guesses about the mechanisms.

Don't feel like because one can have a discussion that it makes sense to have one. If I make up a word, you shouldn't waste time debating its meaning, you should just ask me to give you a clear definition of how I'm using it.

[jmye]

Any good faith reply would take, as clear, that the issue is not with using a big mixer and that that is not what anyone, on earth, means when they talk about "industrial processing" or "using additives (perhaps not typically considered "food" in an of themselves) for emulsifying, flavor, shelf stability & preservation, color, etc.".

Parsing words seems super intellectual when you're 12 years old arguing with your mom about bed time, but it gets pretty boring pretty quickly after that. Something to consider.

[drum55]

The idea that you could buy any food that doesn’t fit that definition is silly, all foods have additives that’s why you can buy them and they last for more than 60 seconds on a shelf, all foods are processed because we don’t eat raw seeds as the majority of our staple diet. You have to come up with a definition of what “process” is good and bad, and what about them is “bad” before making statements like that.